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I believe a good measure is the likelihood of someone else doing it. If you're forced to shoot someone innocent, you can do it if it's obvious that someone els

I believe a good measure is the likelihood of someone else doing it. If you're forced to shoot someone innocent, you can do it if it's obvious that someone else (a fellow soldier?!) would be doing it instead and you will suffer from the consequences. Also as a dev, if you design a user tracking feature, it's clear someone else will do it if you don't. However, for the first atomic bomb there is probably a time window where you might not be replaceable and hence saying 'no' would have had an actual effect. I know it's morally questionable (mind though it doesnt tell you what you should do, only what's acceptable) but avoids all avoidable stuff and is just honest enough to acknowledge the situations in which you don't have the power to affect outcomes.

abduhl 10y ago
The argument of "if I don't do it then someone else will" is a self fulfilling prophecy. You are that someone and it speaks to a weakness of character in anybody who invokes it. If everyone said no then someone else wouldn't do it. Consider this: you are the last in the line of people - everyone before you has said no which is why they're asking you - except instead of being principled like all the rest you have caved and said yes. Congratulations, you are the "someone else" and the downfall of the entire system.
- dmichulke 10y ago
  Your example specifically ignores what I said: I was referring to the "likelihood of someone else doing it". If I am the last in a line of people, the likelihood of someone else doing it is zero, so the above would suggest refusal as well. And of course, all these decisions are quite easy to make if you ignore the "being forced to" part. In most scenarios we see in films or know from history it was: Either you do it or you will suffer dire consequences (some Nazi prison or death for example). I understand that the above is not romantic and doesn't make for heroic films. But this is about reality, so tell me would you as a soldier refuse to kill someone even if probability was highly likely that someone else would do it? At the threat of death? If so, you probably just got two people killed instead of one. If not, you cannot really complain about what I wrote above.
dmichulke 10y ago
Can someone help me understanding the downvotes?

abduhl 10y ago

The argument of "if I don't do it then someone else will" is a self fulfilling prophecy. You are that someone and it speaks to a weakness of character in anybody who invokes it. If everyone said no then someone else wouldn't do it. Consider this: you are the last in the line of people - everyone before you has said no which is why they're asking you - except instead of being principled like all the rest you have caved and said yes. Congratulations, you are the "someone else" and the downfall of the entire system.

dmichulke 10y ago
Your example specifically ignores what I said: I was referring to the "likelihood of someone else doing it". If I am the last in a line of people, the likelihood of someone else doing it is zero, so the above would suggest refusal as well. And of course, all these decisions are quite easy to make if you ignore the "being forced to" part. In most scenarios we see in films or know from history it was: Either you do it or you will suffer dire consequences (some Nazi prison or death for example). I understand that the above is not romantic and doesn't make for heroic films. But this is about reality, so tell me would you as a soldier refuse to kill someone even if probability was highly likely that someone else would do it? At the threat of death? If so, you probably just got two people killed instead of one. If not, you cannot really complain about what I wrote above.

dmichulke 10y ago

Can someone help me understanding the downvotes?