12 ms·

The Old Republic seems to be totally cool with the idea of slavery, Anakin's mother as you say, droids seem to be self-aware with personalities etc but are mere

by gaius 10y ago

The Old Republic seems to be totally cool with the idea of slavery, Anakin's mother as you say, droids seem to be self-aware with personalities etc but are mere property, and so on. The Jedi were intent on preserving the status quo and not rocking the boat. Overthrowing it was absolutely the right thing to do.

gonzo41 10y ago
It is the difference between RIGHT and WRONG vs right and wrong. Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them) if you think of the self aware droids as cattle then its kind of a choie about what you like more. Cows are really nice animals in taste and temperament. Its about where you draw the line, and I guess in a way the jedi were being all realpolitik with how they deal with the galaxy. In earth scale I would say they best examples is States Rights vs Human Rights. At what point do we get involved with a country for their human rights abuses? I'm Australian and I would happily see a few of my politicians dragged off to the Hague to be hung for their treatment of refugees. so what do we do with, American and its spying and DPRK, the philipines, burma, iran etc etc. The interesting thing about the Star wars films is that the build up of arms by forces in the galaxy is allowed. I know in other series of sci fi (DUNE) there was a repression of technology past a point, if only to add some normal level to the battle field. If you start to develop capability eventually the end result is the use of it, Im supprised the empire could get away with the build up in secret. Anyway. Rouge one was a lot like the thin red line. so tip of the hat to the star wars people for making a wholly depressing and sad war film. -Also something i noticed, the UI and control systems engeneers in the empire a crap. its like a jobs for the boys kind of operation where everyone gets to do something. why is the antenna sighting control seperate from the transmission control. they are so tightly related. and also. The antenna is for space communications, visual sight of the dish isn't really needed as your not pointing at anything. Other than that everything was super realistic with the fish people and faster that light travel etc. :P
- Anderkent 10y ago
  The manual controls for the library were the funniest thing ever. Oh yeah, the software can highlight the thing you want with a light. But moving a servo there is too hard, here, use these handles.
  - MereInterest 10y ago
    I imagined it as intentionally needing manual control, so that a computer security breach would not result in leaking sensitive documents. Somebody who gains remote access could highlight the document that they want to steal, but could not upload it to a remote server, without the help of a person nearby. Granted, the same effect could be achieved by having the storage system deposit the hard drive in a box, to be picked up by hand, but I can't come up with any explanation about that.
    - TuringTest 10y ago
      I was shocked that the Empire's reaction to having their central secret military archive compromised was (spoiler ahead) to blow the whole base from space; more so when it is hinted that this was their only copy. Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though, as well as knowing that it had undergone some "preliminary tests" before Episode IV.
      - Anderkent 10y ago
        >Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though Oh yeah the slomo nuke that's literally outran by the characters. ಠ_ಠ
        MereInterest 10y ago
        Given that they were a large distance away from the site of the explosion, it isn't unreasonable. From orbit, we see that the shockwave has covered a large proportion of Jedha's circumference, easily visible from space, at the time of the jump to hyperspace. Estimating the diameter at 5% of the planet's circumference, the shockwave traveled about 600 miles, which would take about 45 minutes for the shockwave to reach, assuming similar size and atmospheric density as Earth (reasonable, since humans can comfortably live there). Clearly, the stronghold is not 600 miles from the city, as the shockwave was traveling faster than the rockwave, but it gives a good sense of timing. Note that the characters were not able to outrun the rockwave without the jump to hyperspace.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them) Nitpick, but this isn't what relativistic morality means; it means that there's no One True morality. Racial supremacism doesn't really have anything to do with it.
  - gonzo41 10y ago
    you're correct. I was just moving quickly on a tangent and genocides based on religion, race etc came quickest to my mind as an example. But its a big galaxy and there are lots of normal.
jankotek 10y ago
I did not comment on some abstract fight, but on idea of leaving close relative alone in harsh conditions. Just send some money, buy her freedom, and do your jedi stuff after that. It is like fighting for social justice, while your children are starving.
- zhemao 10y ago
  If this is about Anakin's personal morality, he was a kid when he left. And by joining the Jedi order, he was supposed to shed his familial attachments. And then in Episode II, he violated those principles to rush to her side when he sensed she was in mortal danger.
UncleSlacky 10y ago
You're not the first to notice this: http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/article/2540 http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/articl...
toxican 10y ago
Tatooine is beyond the Republic's sphere of influence. Droids only develope personalities after going a long period of time without a memory wipe (a quirk of their programming?) R2, 3PO, Chopper, and K-2 are the only canonical droids we see with personalities.
- umbrai_nation 10y ago
  Is a memory wipe any better than slavery? In a world with the technology to wipe human minds, you could say the same about us.
  - jdfellow 10y ago
    Hence the 4-year lifespan in Blade Runner.
    - sqeaky 10y ago
      Because Killing your slaves somehow justifies slavery?
      - sirclueless 10y ago
        At the risk of introducing a contentious topic into polite discussion: there's an obvious parallel with abortion. It's seen as pragmatic, and maybe even kind, to terminate an entity's existence before it can achieve the intelligence and sentience that grant it moral rights. If you're OK owning and operating a robotic arm, and not OK with owning and operating a sentient AI, then what to do with robotic arms that develop sentience over time?
      - thousandautumns 10y ago
        Depends on if you view killing them before they develop into what is considered a being with rights I guess. It's honestly the exact same debate as abortion. I agree with you, for what it's worth.
        10y ago

by gaius 10y ago

gonzo41 10y ago

It is the difference between RIGHT and WRONG vs right and wrong. Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them) if you think of the self aware droids as cattle then its kind of a choie about what you like more. Cows are really nice animals in taste and temperament. Its about where you draw the line, and I guess in a way the jedi were being all realpolitik with how they deal with the galaxy. In earth scale I would say they best examples is States Rights vs Human Rights. At what point do we get involved with a country for their human rights abuses? I'm Australian and I would happily see a few of my politicians dragged off to the Hague to be hung for their treatment of refugees. so what do we do with, American and its spying and DPRK, the philipines, burma, iran etc etc. The interesting thing about the Star wars films is that the build up of arms by forces in the galaxy is allowed. I know in other series of sci fi (DUNE) there was a repression of technology past a point, if only to add some normal level to the battle field. If you start to develop capability eventually the end result is the use of it, Im supprised the empire could get away with the build up in secret. Anyway. Rouge one was a lot like the thin red line. so tip of the hat to the star wars people for making a wholly depressing and sad war film. -Also something i noticed, the UI and control systems engeneers in the empire a crap. its like a jobs for the boys kind of operation where everyone gets to do something. why is the antenna sighting control seperate from the transmission control. they are so tightly related. and also. The antenna is for space communications, visual sight of the dish isn't really needed as your not pointing at anything. Other than that everything was super realistic with the fish people and faster that light travel etc. :P

Anderkent 10y ago
The manual controls for the library were the funniest thing ever. Oh yeah, the software can highlight the thing you want with a light. But moving a servo there is too hard, here, use these handles.
- MereInterest 10y ago
  I imagined it as intentionally needing manual control, so that a computer security breach would not result in leaking sensitive documents. Somebody who gains remote access could highlight the document that they want to steal, but could not upload it to a remote server, without the help of a person nearby. Granted, the same effect could be achieved by having the storage system deposit the hard drive in a box, to be picked up by hand, but I can't come up with any explanation about that.
  - TuringTest 10y ago
    I was shocked that the Empire's reaction to having their central secret military archive compromised was (spoiler ahead) to blow the whole base from space; more so when it is hinted that this was their only copy. Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though, as well as knowing that it had undergone some "preliminary tests" before Episode IV.
    - Anderkent 10y ago
      >Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though Oh yeah the slomo nuke that's literally outran by the characters. ಠ_ಠ
      - MereInterest 10y ago
        Given that they were a large distance away from the site of the explosion, it isn't unreasonable. From orbit, we see that the shockwave has covered a large proportion of Jedha's circumference, easily visible from space, at the time of the jump to hyperspace. Estimating the diameter at 5% of the planet's circumference, the shockwave traveled about 600 miles, which would take about 45 minutes for the shockwave to reach, assuming similar size and atmospheric density as Earth (reasonable, since humans can comfortably live there). Clearly, the stronghold is not 600 miles from the city, as the shockwave was traveling faster than the rockwave, but it gives a good sense of timing. Note that the characters were not able to outrun the rockwave without the jump to hyperspace.
icebraining 10y ago
Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them) Nitpick, but this isn't what relativistic morality means; it means that there's no One True morality. Racial supremacism doesn't really have anything to do with it.
- gonzo41 10y ago
  you're correct. I was just moving quickly on a tangent and genocides based on religion, race etc came quickest to my mind as an example. But its a big galaxy and there are lots of normal.

jankotek 10y ago

I did not comment on some abstract fight, but on idea of leaving close relative alone in harsh conditions. Just send some money, buy her freedom, and do your jedi stuff after that. It is like fighting for social justice, while your children are starving.

zhemao 10y ago
If this is about Anakin's personal morality, he was a kid when he left. And by joining the Jedi order, he was supposed to shed his familial attachments. And then in Episode II, he violated those principles to rush to her side when he sensed she was in mortal danger.

UncleSlacky 10y ago

You're not the first to notice this: http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/article/2540 http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-case-for-the-empire/articl...

toxican 10y ago

Tatooine is beyond the Republic's sphere of influence. Droids only develope personalities after going a long period of time without a memory wipe (a quirk of their programming?) R2, 3PO, Chopper, and K-2 are the only canonical droids we see with personalities.

umbrai_nation 10y ago
Is a memory wipe any better than slavery? In a world with the technology to wipe human minds, you could say the same about us.
- jdfellow 10y ago
  Hence the 4-year lifespan in Blade Runner.
  - sqeaky 10y ago
    Because Killing your slaves somehow justifies slavery?
    - sirclueless 10y ago
      At the risk of introducing a contentious topic into polite discussion: there's an obvious parallel with abortion. It's seen as pragmatic, and maybe even kind, to terminate an entity's existence before it can achieve the intelligence and sentience that grant it moral rights. If you're OK owning and operating a robotic arm, and not OK with owning and operating a sentient AI, then what to do with robotic arms that develop sentience over time?
    - thousandautumns 10y ago
      Depends on if you view killing them before they develop into what is considered a being with rights I guess. It's honestly the exact same debate as abortion. I agree with you, for what it's worth.
      - 10y ago