4 ms·

They did that in Portland (I used to live there). They built the MAX line out to the airport, and put an Ikea and an outdoor shopping center there, and it was

by Frondo 10y ago

They did that in Portland (I used to live there). They built the MAX line out to the airport, and put an Ikea and an outdoor shopping center there, and it was frickin awesome. People would even haul stuff from Ikea on the MAX! Everywhere they built the MAX line, shops and commerce would spring up around it. Of course, there's still a small, incredibly vocal contingent who opposes public transit no matter what. Happily, they were able to keep extending the MAX in different directions despite that small, vocal opposition. Portland got a lot wrong, especially with the homeless, but their public transit is just great.

DrScump 10y ago
There are other opinions: http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/05/28/portland-or-lrt-is-cost-ineffective-unable-to-operate-at-promised-frequencies/ http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/05/28/portland-or-lrt-is-c... They quote an operational farebox recovery rate of less than 28%, so taxpayers are subsidizing almost 3/4 of the operational cost plus all of the fixed costs and construction. (As disappointing as that it, it's still over 8 times better than VTA in the San Jose area!)
- Frondo 10y ago
  In 2015, TriMet's farebox recovery ratio was 39.1%. Funnily enough, that blog post seems to have made up the numbers out of thin air. They quote a 2011 FRR of 27.8%, while TriMet's published numbers are 35.9%. Regardless, it's a public good. I simply wouldn't expect public transportation to make money, just like I wouldn't expect the court system or the DMV to make money. These things exist to benefit the city or state as a whole. I'm happy to pitch in. How much it should be subsidized is a fair question, but that it should be at all, not even a concern for me. (Source, TriMet's operations data: https://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/trimetridership.pdf https://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/trimetridership.pdf)
  - akiselev 10y ago
    Another factor to consider is the self fulfilling prophecy. Fiscal conservatives who are opposed to subsidizing public transportation throw up obstacle after obstacle, which drives up the cost and all but guarantees that the system will need to be subsidized, especially with underground mass transit. A single injunction stopping work for a few weeks while a judge reviews the case can cost an insane amount because you can't move the highly customized and now unutilized drill to an active work site or stop paying the highly specialized crew while they sit on their hands and maintain an imobile megamachine.
    - trome 10y ago
      Needless to say when it comes to roads they're opposed to tolling, and aren't willing to staunch the bleeding when it comes to maintenance or roadway construction.
- trome 10y ago
  How is the farebox recovery rate on roadways in Oregon State? Wait, I forgot, those operate as a massive money bleed. In regards to headways, unless you are fully grade separated you can only go so tight with scheduling (fuckin' cars man, fuckin' up my mass transit!), also the number you cited appears to be made up, please cite sources.
  - DrScump 10y ago
    How is the farebox recovery rate on roadways in Oregon State? The equivalent is auto and truck registration fees, weight fees, and fuel taxes. Does the sum of those not exceed the corresponding road maintenance?
    - Frondo 10y ago
      Not even close. The Oregon Department of Transportation gets a ton of federal money as a huge part of its budget.
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
their public transit is just great Not all of Portland's transit ideas are smart or successful. Here's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WES_Commuter_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WES_Commuter_Rail a $166 million fiasco. Only 2,000 riders a day (and they may be lying about that number; I watch many trains go by with only a handful of people on them).

by Frondo 10y ago

DrScump 10y ago

There are other opinions: http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/05/28/portland-or-lrt-is-cost-ineffective-unable-to-operate-at-promised-frequencies/ http://skytrainforsurrey.org/2012/05/28/portland-or-lrt-is-c... They quote an operational farebox recovery rate of less than 28%, so taxpayers are subsidizing almost 3/4 of the operational cost plus all of the fixed costs and construction. (As disappointing as that it, it's still over 8 times better than VTA in the San Jose area!)

Frondo 10y ago
In 2015, TriMet's farebox recovery ratio was 39.1%. Funnily enough, that blog post seems to have made up the numbers out of thin air. They quote a 2011 FRR of 27.8%, while TriMet's published numbers are 35.9%. Regardless, it's a public good. I simply wouldn't expect public transportation to make money, just like I wouldn't expect the court system or the DMV to make money. These things exist to benefit the city or state as a whole. I'm happy to pitch in. How much it should be subsidized is a fair question, but that it should be at all, not even a concern for me. (Source, TriMet's operations data: https://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/trimetridership.pdf https://trimet.org/pdfs/publications/trimetridership.pdf)
- akiselev 10y ago
  Another factor to consider is the self fulfilling prophecy. Fiscal conservatives who are opposed to subsidizing public transportation throw up obstacle after obstacle, which drives up the cost and all but guarantees that the system will need to be subsidized, especially with underground mass transit. A single injunction stopping work for a few weeks while a judge reviews the case can cost an insane amount because you can't move the highly customized and now unutilized drill to an active work site or stop paying the highly specialized crew while they sit on their hands and maintain an imobile megamachine.
  - trome 10y ago
    Needless to say when it comes to roads they're opposed to tolling, and aren't willing to staunch the bleeding when it comes to maintenance or roadway construction.
trome 10y ago
How is the farebox recovery rate on roadways in Oregon State? Wait, I forgot, those operate as a massive money bleed. In regards to headways, unless you are fully grade separated you can only go so tight with scheduling (fuckin' cars man, fuckin' up my mass transit!), also the number you cited appears to be made up, please cite sources.
- DrScump 10y ago
  How is the farebox recovery rate on roadways in Oregon State? The equivalent is auto and truck registration fees, weight fees, and fuel taxes. Does the sum of those not exceed the corresponding road maintenance?
  - Frondo 10y ago
    Not even close. The Oregon Department of Transportation gets a ton of federal money as a huge part of its budget.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

their public transit is just great Not all of Portland's transit ideas are smart or successful. Here's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WES_Commuter_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WES_Commuter_Rail a $166 million fiasco. Only 2,000 riders a day (and they may be lying about that number; I watch many trains go by with only a handful of people on them).