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1. Do you climb, kayak, bicycle, hike? If yes, how do you get your gear to XXXX? 2. Do you rely on someone with a vehicle? I know lots of people don't drive wh

1. Do you climb, kayak, bicycle, hike? If yes, how do you get your gear to XXXX? 2. Do you rely on someone with a vehicle? I know lots of people don't drive who live in DC and NYC... yet they "borrow" friends shit all the time. 3. Generational? As in, can't afford a vehicle or would rather "borrow" a vehicle? Or?

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
1. Yes; trains and Uber. Skiing is tricky, but there are usually trains or buses or, worst case, a friend driving or an (expensive) flight to a nearby regional. 2. No, other than my parents who insist on driving me when I'm home. 3. I don't attach immaterial value to owning a car. I don't enjoy driving and don't see cars as symbols of freedom.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  I don't understand. Do places like the US national parks have train stations? And do you take an Uber all the way into the wilderness? Are Uber drivers really happy do that? Do you carry a SATCOM system so you can get a data connection to request an Uber to get home again? How long do you have to wait for one to turn up if you are doing a climb three hours drive into the wilderness? For example look at the 'getting here' page for a random national park, like Zion. It only lists directions for private cars. Presumably if there was any other way of getting there then someone like the National Parks would make it extremely clear how to do that. Are there train stations near Zion? Would you literally take an Uber all the way there from a major city? It would be hundreds of dollars wouldn't it? If you got an invite to join your friends hiking for a few days in Zion next week, how would you get there? I think you're going to reply 'well obviously you can't quite do everything and I wouldn't be able to do a climb far from a central visitor centre or join those friends' and bingo, I think the bar for what you can do outdoors without a car to get you there is pretty sad and you'll be missing out rather than living some high life of car freedom. My car's paid for, sits out of the way in my garage and costs me a week or so's wages a year in maintenance, fuel and insurance. It's an effective tool to get out there in the world and do things with basically zero negative impact on my life.
  - wott 10y ago
    You can replace much and adapt most with these 3 things: organisation, organisation and organisation.
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      What's what I'd said someone would say. 'replace much'. And I think 'much' would turn out to be a pretty poor standard compared to what you can do with a car. The logistical organisation involved in achieving what you could do would be a huge time and money sink - which is what people who give up cars often say was the benefit in the first place! You wouldn't get to join your friends hiking in Zion is what would happen in reality.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - Gargoyle 10y ago
        No, you'd rent a car is what would happen in reality. Same way as the vast majority of people who visit Zion. I went to many remote areas in the western US before I moved from the east coast, and it was often in rental cars (and not once in the personal car I owned, which remained on the east coast.) This just isn't the obstacle you're making it out to be.
        Kadin 10y ago
        I can totally understand doing this with a rental car, but upthread, the idea of not having a driver's license at all was being put forward in a positive light. So that means no renting a car. Without the ability to drive, you'd have to not just rent a car, but rent a driver as well; that's like an order of magnitude difference in price. Rental cars are already a great alternative to private car ownership in a great many situations, basically any one where you don't need a car where you live most of the time, and just need one for travel/vacation/etc. purposes.
  - mjmahone17 10y ago
sanderjd 10y ago
Speaking for myself as somewhat of an outdoors adventurer: my wife and I still need a car for that stuff, but we don't need two cars anymore, and we don't use the one car we still have very much during the week (which means it will last longer). This represents a smaller, but still tangible, difference in car buying needs.
jessaustin 10y ago
Do you... bicycle...? If yes, how do you get your gear to XXXX? This is always worth a chuckle. I love pedaling past cars stuck in traffic, with a fancy bike on the rack.
- mantas 10y ago
  Because people like discovering new routes instead of pedalling around the city again and again and again?
- slavik81 10y ago
  Lots of types of bicyling require a car. Downhill mountain biking is very exciting and the mountains are absolutely beautiful. It's like skiing, but more dangerous because there's no snow.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

1. Yes; trains and Uber. Skiing is tricky, but there are usually trains or buses or, worst case, a friend driving or an (expensive) flight to a nearby regional. 2. No, other than my parents who insist on driving me when I'm home. 3. I don't attach immaterial value to owning a car. I don't enjoy driving and don't see cars as symbols of freedom.

chrisseaton 10y ago
I don't understand. Do places like the US national parks have train stations? And do you take an Uber all the way into the wilderness? Are Uber drivers really happy do that? Do you carry a SATCOM system so you can get a data connection to request an Uber to get home again? How long do you have to wait for one to turn up if you are doing a climb three hours drive into the wilderness? For example look at the 'getting here' page for a random national park, like Zion. It only lists directions for private cars. Presumably if there was any other way of getting there then someone like the National Parks would make it extremely clear how to do that. Are there train stations near Zion? Would you literally take an Uber all the way there from a major city? It would be hundreds of dollars wouldn't it? If you got an invite to join your friends hiking for a few days in Zion next week, how would you get there? I think you're going to reply 'well obviously you can't quite do everything and I wouldn't be able to do a climb far from a central visitor centre or join those friends' and bingo, I think the bar for what you can do outdoors without a car to get you there is pretty sad and you'll be missing out rather than living some high life of car freedom. My car's paid for, sits out of the way in my garage and costs me a week or so's wages a year in maintenance, fuel and insurance. It's an effective tool to get out there in the world and do things with basically zero negative impact on my life.
- wott 10y ago
  You can replace much and adapt most with these 3 things: organisation, organisation and organisation.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    What's what I'd said someone would say. 'replace much'. And I think 'much' would turn out to be a pretty poor standard compared to what you can do with a car. The logistical organisation involved in achieving what you could do would be a huge time and money sink - which is what people who give up cars often say was the benefit in the first place! You wouldn't get to join your friends hiking in Zion is what would happen in reality.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Gargoyle 10y ago
      No, you'd rent a car is what would happen in reality. Same way as the vast majority of people who visit Zion. I went to many remote areas in the western US before I moved from the east coast, and it was often in rental cars (and not once in the personal car I owned, which remained on the east coast.) This just isn't the obstacle you're making it out to be.
      - Kadin 10y ago
        I can totally understand doing this with a rental car, but upthread, the idea of not having a driver's license at all was being put forward in a positive light. So that means no renting a car. Without the ability to drive, you'd have to not just rent a car, but rent a driver as well; that's like an order of magnitude difference in price. Rental cars are already a great alternative to private car ownership in a great many situations, basically any one where you don't need a car where you live most of the time, and just need one for travel/vacation/etc. purposes.
- mjmahone17 10y ago

sanderjd 10y ago

Speaking for myself as somewhat of an outdoors adventurer: my wife and I still need a car for that stuff, but we don't need two cars anymore, and we don't use the one car we still have very much during the week (which means it will last longer). This represents a smaller, but still tangible, difference in car buying needs.

jessaustin 10y ago

Do you... bicycle...? If yes, how do you get your gear to XXXX? This is always worth a chuckle. I love pedaling past cars stuck in traffic, with a fancy bike on the rack.

mantas 10y ago
Because people like discovering new routes instead of pedalling around the city again and again and again?
slavik81 10y ago
Lots of types of bicyling require a car. Downhill mountain biking is very exciting and the mountains are absolutely beautiful. It's like skiing, but more dangerous because there's no snow.