4 ms·

Need, not just want. For the residents of most of the surface area of America, you cannot survive without owning your own vehicle. Stores can be 10 to 50 to 100

Need, not just want. For the residents of most of the surface area of America, you cannot survive without owning your own vehicle. Stores can be 10 to 50 to 100 miles away from your home, there are no buses or taxis or Uber, you can sometimes get a ride from a friend or neighbor but only if they're also planning to go to town, and if you each go to town together you're usually stuck there all day and then have to each wait long times for the other person to do what they need to do, because you're each shopping for the next 2 – 3 weeks before you go to town again.

fulafel 10y ago
Sure if you lock everything else as constants. "We are accustomed to living like this" is not an overriding force.
monkmartinez 10y ago
Agreed, I have the feeling that most people think San Francisco or New York when they think "city"... the problem is that Phoenix exists (all 517 square miles). There are many, many medium sized (1 million ppl +) cities that are conglomerations of suburbs, with very little "urban" interface like Phoenix dotting the western portion of the US.
- waterphone 10y ago
  And there are plenty of people who do not and have no desire to live in a city at all, and that isn't going to change. Many people retire to rural areas, or live in smaller cities/towns. It's a deliberate lifestyle choice for many, and these people are perfectly happy to own a vehicle of their own and use it and it's not a problem that needs solving for them. So when urban technologists come in and say they're going to "solve" the problem of car ownership and turn it into a service, such people respond somewhere between mockery and outrage at the ignorance of such people thinking their ultra-urban environment is the only acceptable way of life.
  - euyyn 10y ago
    Car ownership is a problem for some (many) people. If someone responds with mockery at the idea of self-driving cars only because it's not a problem for him, he's the one being ignorant.
    - waterphone 10y ago
      No one is mocking the idea that there is a place for self driving cars, whether privately owned or pooled for collective use, just that this is going to completely replace private ownerships for everyone. As a rural resident who does most driving on rough, dirt roads and roads without lane markings, I think it would be cool to eventually have a car that could self-drive, but I don't expect them to work for me anytime soon. Electric cars, similarly, aren't practical for rural usage—there is nothing comparable to the ease of throwing a few more cans of gas into the back to extend your range when driving long distance in a remote area with no fuel/power. As batteries and range keep getting better, they become more useful for some rural users, but still not so much for long distance backcountry travel. Furthermore, people who choose to live in rural areas end up needing to be more self-sufficient mechanically as well, able to repair vehicles themselves. Electric and self-driving vehicles are and will continue to become decreasingly user-serviceable. That alone is a big reason for me to hesitate in ever wanting one. The world is moving away from repairability, and for people who need to be able to fix things ourselves, or who believe that it's the right thing to do, that forces us to avoid adoption of certain newer technologies. But now I'm getting into a whole new subject.
      - Aloha 10y ago
        The best case I see, is the modern day equivalent of the horse that could get you home when you were otherwise too drunk to do so yourself. The worst case I see, is that this technology could be imposed on all of us, whether is works, is useful, is needed/wanted or not.
  - Fricken 10y ago
    Do you guys hang out in the makeup department and talk about your disineterest in lipstick? Why is every thread on this subject loaded with peanut gallery comments from people who aren't interested in autonomous cars. If you don't like them don't use them. They still stand to address the needs of 10s of millions of commuters in America, and far more worldwide. It's a huge addressable market.
bluedino 10y ago
How many people do you think live 50 or 100 miles from a store?
- waterphone 10y ago
  I couldn't begin to answer that, but I do and just about everyone I know does. Outside of the few major cities in the southwest, many people do. There are occasional small general stores scattered around, but if you want to actually go grocery shopping or hardware shopping, etc., you take a 50 to several hundred mile trip to various larger cities.

fulafel 10y ago

Sure if you lock everything else as constants. "We are accustomed to living like this" is not an overriding force.

monkmartinez 10y ago

Agreed, I have the feeling that most people think San Francisco or New York when they think "city"... the problem is that Phoenix exists (all 517 square miles). There are many, many medium sized (1 million ppl +) cities that are conglomerations of suburbs, with very little "urban" interface like Phoenix dotting the western portion of the US.

waterphone 10y ago
And there are plenty of people who do not and have no desire to live in a city at all, and that isn't going to change. Many people retire to rural areas, or live in smaller cities/towns. It's a deliberate lifestyle choice for many, and these people are perfectly happy to own a vehicle of their own and use it and it's not a problem that needs solving for them. So when urban technologists come in and say they're going to "solve" the problem of car ownership and turn it into a service, such people respond somewhere between mockery and outrage at the ignorance of such people thinking their ultra-urban environment is the only acceptable way of life.
- euyyn 10y ago
  Car ownership is a problem for some (many) people. If someone responds with mockery at the idea of self-driving cars only because it's not a problem for him, he's the one being ignorant.
  - waterphone 10y ago
    No one is mocking the idea that there is a place for self driving cars, whether privately owned or pooled for collective use, just that this is going to completely replace private ownerships for everyone. As a rural resident who does most driving on rough, dirt roads and roads without lane markings, I think it would be cool to eventually have a car that could self-drive, but I don't expect them to work for me anytime soon. Electric cars, similarly, aren't practical for rural usage—there is nothing comparable to the ease of throwing a few more cans of gas into the back to extend your range when driving long distance in a remote area with no fuel/power. As batteries and range keep getting better, they become more useful for some rural users, but still not so much for long distance backcountry travel. Furthermore, people who choose to live in rural areas end up needing to be more self-sufficient mechanically as well, able to repair vehicles themselves. Electric and self-driving vehicles are and will continue to become decreasingly user-serviceable. That alone is a big reason for me to hesitate in ever wanting one. The world is moving away from repairability, and for people who need to be able to fix things ourselves, or who believe that it's the right thing to do, that forces us to avoid adoption of certain newer technologies. But now I'm getting into a whole new subject.
    - Aloha 10y ago
      The best case I see, is the modern day equivalent of the horse that could get you home when you were otherwise too drunk to do so yourself. The worst case I see, is that this technology could be imposed on all of us, whether is works, is useful, is needed/wanted or not.
- Fricken 10y ago
  Do you guys hang out in the makeup department and talk about your disineterest in lipstick? Why is every thread on this subject loaded with peanut gallery comments from people who aren't interested in autonomous cars. If you don't like them don't use them. They still stand to address the needs of 10s of millions of commuters in America, and far more worldwide. It's a huge addressable market.

bluedino 10y ago

How many people do you think live 50 or 100 miles from a store?

waterphone 10y ago
I couldn't begin to answer that, but I do and just about everyone I know does. Outside of the few major cities in the southwest, many people do. There are occasional small general stores scattered around, but if you want to actually go grocery shopping or hardware shopping, etc., you take a 50 to several hundred mile trip to various larger cities.