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I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. There's so much that's more likely to be happening I can't fathom why

I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. There's so much that's more likely to be happening I can't fathom why they just default to assuming that and it only serves to make the conversation seem crazy to anyone with a hint of rationality. Here's a more likely scenario that is scary in its own right: I have a private conversation with John Doe. John Google's it and ends up on a page with the Facebook tracking pixel. Google knows John and I know each other, knows John and I were in the same place and knows John googled something not long after or while we were in the same place. Facebook doesn't know we talked about it but it can make a guess. Worst case is they show me an ad without much context like dozens of other ads I ignore every single day. That kind of profiling is what we should be talking about because it doesn't take much to figure out who's talking to who about what when you have information about their every move and page load.

c0nducktr 10y ago
I can definitely believe that people think Facebook is spying on them through their microphone, because it's the most obvious answer. Most people don't know anything about how tracking works and how Facebook tailor ads to you, but everyone knows how a microphone works. I realize that this was posted on the technology subreddit, but that subreddit reaches an extremely wide audience, most of which certainly doesn't know all the ins-and-outs of the tracking/advertising business.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  Is it the most obvious answer? 20 years ago, I drank a glass of milk and watched the X Files, and then there was an advertisement for milk. Is the most obvious answer that my TV was watching me?
  - c0nducktr 10y ago
    Well, maybe 'obvious' is the wrong term, but there's something different between drinking a glass of milk and seeing a milk ad, and pointing out an Arcadia in a parking lot and telling your friend you liked the car, and then just later that night getting an ad for "2017 GMC Arcadia - Low Financing". The precision is what makes it seem weird, and without an understanding of how a company would target ads to you, the idea that you're being literally listened to by the app, seems possible.
    - coderdude 10y ago
      Coincidences like that happen all the time. Attributing them to spying is a ticket to a level of paranoia that some people have a very hard time finding their way back from. It's healthier to deter them from such lines of thought when there is an absence of evidence that this is something that actually occurs.
      - c0nducktr 10y ago
        Coincidences happen all the time, but targeted ads like those still differ from general audience ads. Just because instead of audio it is spying using metadata and keywords doesn't make seem any less invasive. > Attributing them to spying is a ticket to a level of paranoia that some people have a very hard time finding their way back from. I'll state again that I don't believe FB is actually listening in on phone conversations, but to the majority of their users, they may as well be doing just that. It is all just spying, only using different sources.
        coderdude 10y ago
        I know what you were saying. I just chimed in with my opinion. It's unexpected to have the reply to your comment not be in opposition to yours. The expectation is that I wanted to undermine your opinion.
  - wheelerwj 10y ago
    20 years ago you drank milk because there was a massive Got Milk campaign going on, then you watched X-Files, then you saw ANOTHER milk advertisement. Today, the advertisements aren't about milk, but are about obscure products that eerily match private conversations.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    Your TV does not have the ability to watch you. Facebook makes a business of watching you. If it's legal for FB to use the mic while you're not perfectly aware, they will do it. That said, I don't believe they are doing that, but they are using basically every aggressive means available to capture information about you, which they own, and will do as they please with.
  - whogotsdawat 10y ago
    No, because it wasn't plausible now, and not just for technology reasons. Because back then it would have been unthinkable. Now it is very, very, incredibly thinkable. Hence the Reddit post.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Clubber 10y ago
It's fairly trivial to record voice through an app in the foreground and translate it into text for data mining. I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'm sure if they were they would keep a lid on it for obvious reasons. It would be encrypted, so who would know? I'm sure Facebook enacts a non-disclosure clause for anyone who works there. After Snowden revealed what was not only possible, but what was going on, would this really surprise anyone? That was over three years ago, do you think technology hasn't matured? Do you think they wouldn't do it for ethical reasons when there is profit to be made? Hell, Samsung said they do it with their smart TV's. But their PR department says they respect your privacy, of course. Wink wink. https://www.cnet.com/news/samsungs-warning-our-smart-tvs-record-your-living-room-chatter/ https://www.cnet.com/news/samsungs-warning-our-smart-tvs-rec...
- vosper 10y ago
  You'd really be surprised if they weren't? I'd be astonished if they were - there's no way they'd be able to keep it secret, NDA or not, and there'd be a massive shitstorm about it. Also, I suspect it's not so trivial to actually do this - there's a big difference between how people intentionally speak to a phone (e.g. making calls, FaceTime) and just ambient audio from a phone in a pocket or on a table.
  - Clubber 10y ago
    Well, I'd be surprised if they hadn't researched it to see how feasible it was. >there's no way they'd be able to keep it secret, NDA or not, and there'd be a massive shitstorm about it. If a developer goes public with that information, their career is pretty much over. They get sued for millions of dollars and their life is pretty much over. The developers working on it could be led to believe they were working on something else completely. It only takes 1 person to pull the libraries together, and that would have to be someone you trusted. Coca-Cola protects their formula by having several vats of stuff, so to make Coke, you mix 1 part vat A, 2 parts vat B, and 1 part vat C and you're done (just a hypothetical). Some people knew what was in vat A, but not vat B, etc. The same thing can be applied to programmers. >there's a big difference between how people intentionally speak to a phone (e.g. making calls, FaceTime) and just ambient audio from a phone in a pocket or on a table. Siri can do it easily. You have to be in close proximity for it to respond. Say "Hey Siri" from across the room and nothing happens. Just check volume levels and that's it. Anything quieter than a few decibels and you ignore.
wheelerwj 10y ago
regardless of how it's done, it's still being done. and that data is being handed over to governments. If the ends are a problem, the means are irrelevant.
cryptoz 10y ago
> I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. But why? There is a specific feature inside the Facebook app that does exactly this: listens to ambient sound around you to hear the TV ads, radio ads, etc that it can identify to know more about you. Since Facebook has built a feature into the app that makes it so that the microphone listens to your life, I can easily understand why people think it's spying on you by listening to your microphone. Because it does.
- SallySwanSmith 10y ago
  > There is a specific feature inside the Facebook app that does exactly this: listens to ambient sound around you to hear the TV ads, radio ads, etc that it can identify to know more about you. Citation needed.
  - ORioN63 10y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13252761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13252761
    - zardeh 10y ago
      >Nope, if you choose to turn this feature on, it will only use your microphone (for 15 seconds) when you’re actually writing a status update to try and match music and TV. It doesn't do ambient recording. Its basically shazaam.
whogotsdawat 10y ago
You can't fathom why people would think the microphone is recording them, versus some massively intricate data flying everywhere nonsense method that no one outside of a tech career would have thought of?
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  Because Facebook would be completely fucked if they were caught doing it. Even if by some miracle the US government didn't do something about it at the very least the EU would. That's not even getting into the mass user exodus it would trigger. Something I'm sure marketing teams for other existing services would gladly take advantage of. Facebook is in an amazing position in terms of market share and leverage but they're not invincible. I would wager that if they were caught doing this Facebook would have a new CEO and possibly a mostly new executive team in a matter of weeks or even days. I think it would trigger the introduction of some kind of third party auditing program to ensure it would never happen again. There would be ads running everywhere trying to make amends with the user base. Even if I knew nothing about technology I would assume it was something I didn't understand before I assumed it was the company doing something so utterly stupid.
wdr1 10y ago
> I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. Why? From a marketing/advertising point-of-view, it would be incredibly valuable data. With fairly old technology it would be easy to tell what shows you're watching on TV/radio, what ads you've seen, etc. With more recent technology it may be feasible to figure out interesting attributes from conversations (e.g., you're about to have a baby, discussing buying a car, considering product X, etc.) To be clear, I have no reason to believe Facebook is doing it. I just don't understand why it would be crazy to think they are.

c0nducktr 10y ago

I can definitely believe that people think Facebook is spying on them through their microphone, because it's the most obvious answer. Most people don't know anything about how tracking works and how Facebook tailor ads to you, but everyone knows how a microphone works. I realize that this was posted on the technology subreddit, but that subreddit reaches an extremely wide audience, most of which certainly doesn't know all the ins-and-outs of the tracking/advertising business.

tedunangst 10y ago
Is it the most obvious answer? 20 years ago, I drank a glass of milk and watched the X Files, and then there was an advertisement for milk. Is the most obvious answer that my TV was watching me?
- c0nducktr 10y ago
  Well, maybe 'obvious' is the wrong term, but there's something different between drinking a glass of milk and seeing a milk ad, and pointing out an Arcadia in a parking lot and telling your friend you liked the car, and then just later that night getting an ad for "2017 GMC Arcadia - Low Financing". The precision is what makes it seem weird, and without an understanding of how a company would target ads to you, the idea that you're being literally listened to by the app, seems possible.
  - coderdude 10y ago
    Coincidences like that happen all the time. Attributing them to spying is a ticket to a level of paranoia that some people have a very hard time finding their way back from. It's healthier to deter them from such lines of thought when there is an absence of evidence that this is something that actually occurs.
    - c0nducktr 10y ago
      Coincidences happen all the time, but targeted ads like those still differ from general audience ads. Just because instead of audio it is spying using metadata and keywords doesn't make seem any less invasive. > Attributing them to spying is a ticket to a level of paranoia that some people have a very hard time finding their way back from. I'll state again that I don't believe FB is actually listening in on phone conversations, but to the majority of their users, they may as well be doing just that. It is all just spying, only using different sources.
      - coderdude 10y ago
        I know what you were saying. I just chimed in with my opinion. It's unexpected to have the reply to your comment not be in opposition to yours. The expectation is that I wanted to undermine your opinion.
- wheelerwj 10y ago
  20 years ago you drank milk because there was a massive Got Milk campaign going on, then you watched X-Files, then you saw ANOTHER milk advertisement. Today, the advertisements aren't about milk, but are about obscure products that eerily match private conversations.
- edblarney 10y ago
  Your TV does not have the ability to watch you. Facebook makes a business of watching you. If it's legal for FB to use the mic while you're not perfectly aware, they will do it. That said, I don't believe they are doing that, but they are using basically every aggressive means available to capture information about you, which they own, and will do as they please with.
- whogotsdawat 10y ago
  No, because it wasn't plausible now, and not just for technology reasons. Because back then it would have been unthinkable. Now it is very, very, incredibly thinkable. Hence the Reddit post.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Clubber 10y ago

It's fairly trivial to record voice through an app in the foreground and translate it into text for data mining. I'd be surprised if they weren't. I'm sure if they were they would keep a lid on it for obvious reasons. It would be encrypted, so who would know? I'm sure Facebook enacts a non-disclosure clause for anyone who works there. After Snowden revealed what was not only possible, but what was going on, would this really surprise anyone? That was over three years ago, do you think technology hasn't matured? Do you think they wouldn't do it for ethical reasons when there is profit to be made? Hell, Samsung said they do it with their smart TV's. But their PR department says they respect your privacy, of course. Wink wink. https://www.cnet.com/news/samsungs-warning-our-smart-tvs-record-your-living-room-chatter/ https://www.cnet.com/news/samsungs-warning-our-smart-tvs-rec...

vosper 10y ago
You'd really be surprised if they weren't? I'd be astonished if they were - there's no way they'd be able to keep it secret, NDA or not, and there'd be a massive shitstorm about it. Also, I suspect it's not so trivial to actually do this - there's a big difference between how people intentionally speak to a phone (e.g. making calls, FaceTime) and just ambient audio from a phone in a pocket or on a table.
- Clubber 10y ago
  Well, I'd be surprised if they hadn't researched it to see how feasible it was. >there's no way they'd be able to keep it secret, NDA or not, and there'd be a massive shitstorm about it. If a developer goes public with that information, their career is pretty much over. They get sued for millions of dollars and their life is pretty much over. The developers working on it could be led to believe they were working on something else completely. It only takes 1 person to pull the libraries together, and that would have to be someone you trusted. Coca-Cola protects their formula by having several vats of stuff, so to make Coke, you mix 1 part vat A, 2 parts vat B, and 1 part vat C and you're done (just a hypothetical). Some people knew what was in vat A, but not vat B, etc. The same thing can be applied to programmers. >there's a big difference between how people intentionally speak to a phone (e.g. making calls, FaceTime) and just ambient audio from a phone in a pocket or on a table. Siri can do it easily. You have to be in close proximity for it to respond. Say "Hey Siri" from across the room and nothing happens. Just check volume levels and that's it. Anything quieter than a few decibels and you ignore.

wheelerwj 10y ago

regardless of how it's done, it's still being done. and that data is being handed over to governments. If the ends are a problem, the means are irrelevant.

cryptoz 10y ago

> I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. But why? There is a specific feature inside the Facebook app that does exactly this: listens to ambient sound around you to hear the TV ads, radio ads, etc that it can identify to know more about you. Since Facebook has built a feature into the app that makes it so that the microphone listens to your life, I can easily understand why people think it's spying on you by listening to your microphone. Because it does.

SallySwanSmith 10y ago
> There is a specific feature inside the Facebook app that does exactly this: listens to ambient sound around you to hear the TV ads, radio ads, etc that it can identify to know more about you. Citation needed.
- ORioN63 10y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13252761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13252761
  - zardeh 10y ago
    >Nope, if you choose to turn this feature on, it will only use your microphone (for 15 seconds) when you’re actually writing a status update to try and match music and TV. It doesn't do ambient recording. Its basically shazaam.

whogotsdawat 10y ago

You can't fathom why people would think the microphone is recording them, versus some massively intricate data flying everywhere nonsense method that no one outside of a tech career would have thought of?

brazzledazzle 10y ago
Because Facebook would be completely fucked if they were caught doing it. Even if by some miracle the US government didn't do something about it at the very least the EU would. That's not even getting into the mass user exodus it would trigger. Something I'm sure marketing teams for other existing services would gladly take advantage of. Facebook is in an amazing position in terms of market share and leverage but they're not invincible. I would wager that if they were caught doing this Facebook would have a new CEO and possibly a mostly new executive team in a matter of weeks or even days. I think it would trigger the introduction of some kind of third party auditing program to ensure it would never happen again. There would be ads running everywhere trying to make amends with the user base. Even if I knew nothing about technology I would assume it was something I didn't understand before I assumed it was the company doing something so utterly stupid.

wdr1 10y ago

> I can't believe people legitimately think Facebook is spying on them through microphones. Why? From a marketing/advertising point-of-view, it would be incredibly valuable data. With fairly old technology it would be easy to tell what shows you're watching on TV/radio, what ads you've seen, etc. With more recent technology it may be feasible to figure out interesting attributes from conversations (e.g., you're about to have a baby, discussing buying a car, considering product X, etc.) To be clear, I have no reason to believe Facebook is doing it. I just don't understand why it would be crazy to think they are.