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While I do feel bringing up physical violence is a bit out of bounds in this conversation I can humour it. My point wasn't that I condone or condemn the behavio

While I do feel bringing up physical violence is a bit out of bounds in this conversation I can humour it. My point wasn't that I condone or condemn the behaviour, simply that different things motivate different people and if you wish to reduce a behaviour, a full understanding should come first. The article explore a bit of that but not enough.

anigbrowl 10y ago
I did choose it partly for the startle effect but also to capture the unexpected character of the griefing behavior when it impinges upon someone immersed in the game world. Maybe a better (if more absurd) example would be shooting fireworks at players at a sports game, so they were trying to duck bright-colored rockets rather than kicking or hitting or throwing a ball. It's easy to see how this could be quite entertaining, but if it were to become a regular thing it would get increasingly annoying to the people who wanted to watch a ball game of some sort, and doubly so to the people who had devoted themselves to playing at a professional level. The basic problem with griefing is that it depends on the unwillingness of some participants for its entertainment value to the other participants. The non-physicality of this violence - which is often merely replaced by imaginary violence - doesn't make it OK. It's still a violation insofar as it circumvents the agreed-upon rules of the game environment.
- cannonpr 10y ago
  I kind of agree in the "depends on the unwillingness of some participants" however to play is to often discover the boundaries and the rules of the game. As people often discover in sports, the rules aren't what is written in the little referees book. After all 'griefing' or as sports people call it, fouling, is very much a part of the tactics, Many players have made a career and been rewarded for being good at it. Again, I am not condoning it, I am just expressing that 'griefing' is probably within the boundaries of 'play', while for example, I tend to find that direct trolling and personal insults or threats are not as they are designed to directly injure someones concept of them selves or their world. Perhaps we just draw the boundary at slightly different places, however society usually accepts kicking someones sandcastle down more than punching them in the face. For what it counts I eventually classified griefing as a relatively immature behaviour, although games like Neocron, where 'griefing' or in other words all out PVP was allowable, were interesting. I much prefer your fireworks example lol.

anigbrowl 10y ago

I did choose it partly for the startle effect but also to capture the unexpected character of the griefing behavior when it impinges upon someone immersed in the game world. Maybe a better (if more absurd) example would be shooting fireworks at players at a sports game, so they were trying to duck bright-colored rockets rather than kicking or hitting or throwing a ball. It's easy to see how this could be quite entertaining, but if it were to become a regular thing it would get increasingly annoying to the people who wanted to watch a ball game of some sort, and doubly so to the people who had devoted themselves to playing at a professional level. The basic problem with griefing is that it depends on the unwillingness of some participants for its entertainment value to the other participants. The non-physicality of this violence - which is often merely replaced by imaginary violence - doesn't make it OK. It's still a violation insofar as it circumvents the agreed-upon rules of the game environment.

cannonpr 10y ago
I kind of agree in the "depends on the unwillingness of some participants" however to play is to often discover the boundaries and the rules of the game. As people often discover in sports, the rules aren't what is written in the little referees book. After all 'griefing' or as sports people call it, fouling, is very much a part of the tactics, Many players have made a career and been rewarded for being good at it. Again, I am not condoning it, I am just expressing that 'griefing' is probably within the boundaries of 'play', while for example, I tend to find that direct trolling and personal insults or threats are not as they are designed to directly injure someones concept of them selves or their world. Perhaps we just draw the boundary at slightly different places, however society usually accepts kicking someones sandcastle down more than punching them in the face. For what it counts I eventually classified griefing as a relatively immature behaviour, although games like Neocron, where 'griefing' or in other words all out PVP was allowable, were interesting. I much prefer your fireworks example lol.