4 ms·

This is what very polite racism sounds like.

by chrismealy 10y ago

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
Could you elaborate on how this is racist?
- chrismealy 10y ago
  Basically it was a long-winded and self-flattering defense of exclusion.
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    Exclusion based on cultural, not racial grounds. So Im failing to see how it's racist, rather than merely an unpopular view with which you disagree. And if it's not racist, it's extremely inappropriate for you to label it so. That tactic is meant to silence legitimate disagreement with hyperbole.
    - chrismealy 10y ago
      Well fine, bigotry if you're being pedantic.
      - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        No, I still don't agree. > bigotry: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself It sounds like the OP is perfectly tolerant of them existing and doing whatever it is they do, but thinks there are cultural factors that make some people more productive or better to work with than others. This is obviously true -- education, shared language, a certain amount of tolerance from them -- are all things we expect to be cultural factors in employment. The OPs point is about what cultural factors and values are most important for and best at jobs. How is that being a bigot?
      - prodigal_erik 10y ago
        Bias regarding skin color and genetics is greatly different than bias regarding chosen behavior.
    - icegreentea 10y ago
      Sure. It's just xenophobic. And since the OP's culture was clearly a white man's culture - a culture that has been relatively slow to accommodate others, in many ways its still a racist, sexist vision - granted one with unusual bluriness at the edges.
      - aianus 10y ago
        You've got to be kidding. The only white people in my CS classes were immigrants from Israel and the Soviet bloc. White people (in Canada, at least) flock to management consulting, investment banking, law, and medicine and look down on software developers.
    - vacri 10y ago
      Racism is cultural, not just phenotype. For example, you'll find plenty of English racism against the French, Germans, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, even though all of those groups are white. You're putting too much emphasis on the race part of the word, and not its meaning of exclusion using factors beyond an individual's control. You are the one being hyperbolic.
      - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
        Cultural discrimination isn't the same as racial discrimination, and I think it's very dishonest of people to pretend they're the same problem. Also, culture is something you control: even by your definition, it's not racist. (Though, really, you want a term like 'discriminatory' when talking about all factors, because racism is about race.)
        vacri 10y ago
        What is the functional difference between "No Blacks" and "No Irish"? As chrismealy says, swap in 'bigoted' for 'racist' if you want to be pedantic; his point still stands. It's not "extremely inappropriate" at all - the OP still a polite form of excluding people wholesale on factors that they can't control. And no, culture is not something people can "just choose" when you're working at demographic scales. And 'white culture' does not exist. It's not a thing unto itself. Spanish vs Irish vs Russian vs Slovak are all significantly different. White greeks have more in common with the brown people of the eastern medditeranean than they do with the redheads in the celtic lands. You can't just say "MY culture" and take everything that Europeans and North Americans have done.
zo1 10y ago
And this is what dismissing diverse/alternative opinions sounds like.
cryptarch 10y ago
I personally interpret this post as a reaction to the gross disrespect some Islamic factions have for Western culture, women and human lives, and to issues such as German politicians unilaterally deciding to accept large amounts of immigrants against the will of most citizens, without a good plan to integrate those immigrants culturally while they come from a culture that is very bigoted and known for violence against their women. Edit: I do think the heritage thing was unnecessary, unless used in a context of cultural differences and the therewith coming need for integration. I don't think it's fair or useful to demand each culture to build their own technology from scratch, I think that's crap. I do think it's fair to ask immigrants to adapt to the local culture to the point of tolerating it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kmicklas 10y ago
You should have known you would get downvoted for pointing out racism on hacker news. Rookie mistake.

This is what very polite racism sounds like.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago

Could you elaborate on how this is racist?

chrismealy 10y ago
Basically it was a long-winded and self-flattering defense of exclusion.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  Exclusion based on cultural, not racial grounds. So Im failing to see how it's racist, rather than merely an unpopular view with which you disagree. And if it's not racist, it's extremely inappropriate for you to label it so. That tactic is meant to silence legitimate disagreement with hyperbole.
  - chrismealy 10y ago
    Well fine, bigotry if you're being pedantic.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      No, I still don't agree. > bigotry: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself It sounds like the OP is perfectly tolerant of them existing and doing whatever it is they do, but thinks there are cultural factors that make some people more productive or better to work with than others. This is obviously true -- education, shared language, a certain amount of tolerance from them -- are all things we expect to be cultural factors in employment. The OPs point is about what cultural factors and values are most important for and best at jobs. How is that being a bigot?
    - prodigal_erik 10y ago
      Bias regarding skin color and genetics is greatly different than bias regarding chosen behavior.
  - icegreentea 10y ago
    Sure. It's just xenophobic. And since the OP's culture was clearly a white man's culture - a culture that has been relatively slow to accommodate others, in many ways its still a racist, sexist vision - granted one with unusual bluriness at the edges.
    - aianus 10y ago
      You've got to be kidding. The only white people in my CS classes were immigrants from Israel and the Soviet bloc. White people (in Canada, at least) flock to management consulting, investment banking, law, and medicine and look down on software developers.
  - vacri 10y ago
    Racism is cultural, not just phenotype. For example, you'll find plenty of English racism against the French, Germans, Welsh, Scots, and Irish, even though all of those groups are white. You're putting too much emphasis on the race part of the word, and not its meaning of exclusion using factors beyond an individual's control. You are the one being hyperbolic.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      Cultural discrimination isn't the same as racial discrimination, and I think it's very dishonest of people to pretend they're the same problem. Also, culture is something you control: even by your definition, it's not racist. (Though, really, you want a term like 'discriminatory' when talking about all factors, because racism is about race.)
      - vacri 10y ago
        What is the functional difference between "No Blacks" and "No Irish"? As chrismealy says, swap in 'bigoted' for 'racist' if you want to be pedantic; his point still stands. It's not "extremely inappropriate" at all - the OP still a polite form of excluding people wholesale on factors that they can't control. And no, culture is not something people can "just choose" when you're working at demographic scales. And 'white culture' does not exist. It's not a thing unto itself. Spanish vs Irish vs Russian vs Slovak are all significantly different. White greeks have more in common with the brown people of the eastern medditeranean than they do with the redheads in the celtic lands. You can't just say "MY culture" and take everything that Europeans and North Americans have done.

zo1 10y ago

And this is what dismissing diverse/alternative opinions sounds like.

cryptarch 10y ago

I personally interpret this post as a reaction to the gross disrespect some Islamic factions have for Western culture, women and human lives, and to issues such as German politicians unilaterally deciding to accept large amounts of immigrants against the will of most citizens, without a good plan to integrate those immigrants culturally while they come from a culture that is very bigoted and known for violence against their women. Edit: I do think the heritage thing was unnecessary, unless used in a context of cultural differences and the therewith coming need for integration. I don't think it's fair or useful to demand each culture to build their own technology from scratch, I think that's crap. I do think it's fair to ask immigrants to adapt to the local culture to the point of tolerating it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

kmicklas 10y ago

You should have known you would get downvoted for pointing out racism on hacker news. Rookie mistake.