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I have been a runner for just about my whole life (ran track in HS) is started listening to music when the small mp3 players first came out and I noticed that i

I have been a runner for just about my whole life (ran track in HS) is started listening to music when the small mp3 players first came out and I noticed that it seemed to interfere with my "runners high" a little bit. I know this is tied to beta endorphins but I also think there is a Zen like aspect. So I stopped using the player and instead just let my mind run free too. My theory is that running can also unlock a type of meditative experience in the brain. I notice how much more clearly I can think after. It could be an evolutionary anachronism in that when the hunter man begins to run that the brain enters a state of heightened acuity in preparation for the kill. Who knows.

edblarney 10y ago
"I notice how much more clearly I can think after." Yes me to. I'm quite past 30 and on most days I feel a little crap. After a run, I feel 20-something in terms of energy, motivation and attitude. I think it's a combination of the endorphins, and then the rebalancing of sugar levels. I feel as though my metabolism has been 'reset to something proper'. I think that light cardio is the closest thing to the fountain of youth.
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  Yes, the combo of balanced blood sugar + oxygen + CO2. Might also have something to do with alkalinity as your body clears the lactic acid (by perhaps becoming more alkaline after buffering).
- ipnon 10y ago
  >combination of endorphins The primary component of a runner's high is attributed to a category of neurotransmitters known as endocannabinoids. Endorphins become the primary component of a runner's high when the body becomes structurally damaged, like when marathon runners struggle to remain standing and lose the ability to concentrate (note the similarities to heroin consumption). The feelings of well-being and the Zen-like state that comes about from running a few miles is almost entirely due to endocannabinoids, similar to when someone has consumed cannabis.
  - is_this_valid 10y ago
    > [endocannabinoids] - Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in_hippocampal_neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in_hippocampal_neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in... >> In the adult brain, the endocannabinoid system facilitates the neurogenesis of hippocampal granule cells.[37][38] In the subgranular zone of the dentate gyrus, multipotent neural progenitors (NP) give rise to daughter cells that, over the course of several weeks, mature into granule cells whose axons project to and synapse onto dendrites on the CA3 region.[39] NPs in the hippocampus have been shown to possess fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) and express CB1 and utilize 2-AG.[38] Intriguingly, CB1 activation by endogenous or exogenous cannabinoids promote NP proliferation and differentiation; this activation is absent in CB1 knockouts and abolished in the presence of antagonist.[37][38] - "Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis
timbowhite 10y ago
> I notice how much more clearly I can think after. If the run is more strenuous, do you still see the same effect? For me, a 3 miler at a relaxed pace definitely helps me be more focused afterwards. But if I'm going full tilt up and down hills, or running longer distances, I find myself mentally exhausted afterwards. My theory is that this is due to my mind constantly battling itself on these kind of runs ("THIS HURTS PLEASE STOP NOW" vs. "PUSH PUSH PUSH"). EDIT: I should say both types of runs are relaxing afterwards.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  The harder I run, the better I feel mentally afterwards.
  - timbowhite 10y ago
    Yeah hard runs make me feel great, but it's more of a state of pleasant mental numbness. Mental focus and the ability to do any complex thinking stuff (coding, chess, etc) is entirely diminished.
- zw123456 10y ago
  Good point, if I push myself too far then I end up focusing too much on the push. But on the other hand if I don't push at least part of the time, the end feeling is not as rewarding.
  - timbowhite 10y ago
    Sure. The other thing I've noticed is that I tend to be more aggressive during strenuous runs. For instance, if a car doesn't yield to me at a crosswalk I'll probably yell out something, whereas I normally would ignore it. Might be due to both the mental anguish and the "heightened acuity in preparation for the kill" you mentioned :)
- cylinder 10y ago
  Same thing with weightlifting. There's a fine line between a workout that makes me feel amazing and one that leaves me totally depleted. Nutrition also has an impact (before and after).
FLUX-YOU 10y ago
Music can also be a performance enhancer due to frisson in my experience. I can run for meditation or thrill and feeling. Usually I get better times with the latter and then alternate.
maroonblazer 10y ago
I had the exact same experience. Listening to music or podcasts - even ones I was deeply interested in - diminished the feeling I got while running and the post-run high. It's also why I don't like running with other people. Even if they don't want to talk I'm distracted by their presence, making sure our pace is similar, etc.
- thisone 10y ago
  Times like these i feel like the only runner who doesn't experience any sort of clarity of mind or runner's high. I run five days a week. After a hard run i feel tired. If i made a good time with a low heart rate, i feel slightly happy about it. I don't feel anything i could ever describe as a runner's high, and never have on any type of run.

edblarney 10y ago

"I notice how much more clearly I can think after." Yes me to. I'm quite past 30 and on most days I feel a little crap. After a run, I feel 20-something in terms of energy, motivation and attitude. I think it's a combination of the endorphins, and then the rebalancing of sugar levels. I feel as though my metabolism has been 'reset to something proper'. I think that light cardio is the closest thing to the fountain of youth.

ZeroFries 10y ago
Yes, the combo of balanced blood sugar + oxygen + CO2. Might also have something to do with alkalinity as your body clears the lactic acid (by perhaps becoming more alkaline after buffering).
ipnon 10y ago
>combination of endorphins The primary component of a runner's high is attributed to a category of neurotransmitters known as endocannabinoids. Endorphins become the primary component of a runner's high when the body becomes structurally damaged, like when marathon runners struggle to remain standing and lose the ability to concentrate (note the similarities to heroin consumption). The feelings of well-being and the Zen-like state that comes about from running a few miles is almost entirely due to endocannabinoids, similar to when someone has consumed cannabis.
- is_this_valid 10y ago
  > [endocannabinoids] - Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in_hippocampal_neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in_hippocampal_neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system#Role_in... >> In the adult brain, the endocannabinoid system facilitates the neurogenesis of hippocampal granule cells.[37][38] In the subgranular zone of the dentate gyrus, multipotent neural progenitors (NP) give rise to daughter cells that, over the course of several weeks, mature into granule cells whose axons project to and synapse onto dendrites on the CA3 region.[39] NPs in the hippocampus have been shown to possess fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH) and express CB1 and utilize 2-AG.[38] Intriguingly, CB1 activation by endogenous or exogenous cannabinoids promote NP proliferation and differentiation; this activation is absent in CB1 knockouts and abolished in the presence of antagonist.[37][38] - "Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1253627/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis

timbowhite 10y ago

> I notice how much more clearly I can think after. If the run is more strenuous, do you still see the same effect? For me, a 3 miler at a relaxed pace definitely helps me be more focused afterwards. But if I'm going full tilt up and down hills, or running longer distances, I find myself mentally exhausted afterwards. My theory is that this is due to my mind constantly battling itself on these kind of runs ("THIS HURTS PLEASE STOP NOW" vs. "PUSH PUSH PUSH"). EDIT: I should say both types of runs are relaxing afterwards.

Hydraulix989 10y ago
The harder I run, the better I feel mentally afterwards.
- timbowhite 10y ago
  Yeah hard runs make me feel great, but it's more of a state of pleasant mental numbness. Mental focus and the ability to do any complex thinking stuff (coding, chess, etc) is entirely diminished.
zw123456 10y ago
Good point, if I push myself too far then I end up focusing too much on the push. But on the other hand if I don't push at least part of the time, the end feeling is not as rewarding.
- timbowhite 10y ago
  Sure. The other thing I've noticed is that I tend to be more aggressive during strenuous runs. For instance, if a car doesn't yield to me at a crosswalk I'll probably yell out something, whereas I normally would ignore it. Might be due to both the mental anguish and the "heightened acuity in preparation for the kill" you mentioned :)
cylinder 10y ago
Same thing with weightlifting. There's a fine line between a workout that makes me feel amazing and one that leaves me totally depleted. Nutrition also has an impact (before and after).

FLUX-YOU 10y ago

Music can also be a performance enhancer due to frisson in my experience. I can run for meditation or thrill and feeling. Usually I get better times with the latter and then alternate.

maroonblazer 10y ago

I had the exact same experience. Listening to music or podcasts - even ones I was deeply interested in - diminished the feeling I got while running and the post-run high. It's also why I don't like running with other people. Even if they don't want to talk I'm distracted by their presence, making sure our pace is similar, etc.

thisone 10y ago
Times like these i feel like the only runner who doesn't experience any sort of clarity of mind or runner's high. I run five days a week. After a hard run i feel tired. If i made a good time with a low heart rate, i feel slightly happy about it. I don't feel anything i could ever describe as a runner's high, and never have on any type of run.