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I call bullshit. This relies on special access to SGX which Intel controls. This means you must trust Intel and anyone who may hack Intel and therefore it is

I call bullshit. This relies on special access to SGX which Intel controls. This means you must trust Intel and anyone who may hack Intel and therefore it is not a secure decentralized solution. SGX requires contacting Intel's servers to get an attestation key. There is a good reason Intel requires this. That reason is that SGX doesn't otherwise provide the DRM it was designed to for. With out Intel's attestation keys anyone could emulate SGX in software thus exposing the code and data in the SGX enclave. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/01/sgx_secure_until_you_look_at_the_detail/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/01/sgx_secure_until_you...

silversurfer12 10y ago
I hope you wrote this comment using an AMD processor... ;)
- jcoffland 10y ago
  ARM actually.
ci5er 10y ago
So, step-one, find an trusted, open-source, TPM [crypto co-processor]?
carlitocoolxx 10y ago
If I'm not mistaken: 1) SGX is already shipped in Intel skylake CPU's (i5's and i7's). 2) Development access is publicly also available for anyone who wants to use SGX. Sure, to run an enclave in production mode and to perform remote attestation you need a license with Intel, however this is attainable.. 3) If you don't trust Intel: (i) don't use teechan? It doesn't affect the decentralization of Bitcoin. Bitcoin still has the same trust model, except now, anyone people who DO TRUST Intel can send bitcoins to each other through SGX as well. The rest of the network doesn't need to care; (ii) I guess you trust AMD - unless you've built your own processor from scratch? It seems odd to have a problem with trusting Intel. If you use Bitcoin at all you've probably already trusted Intel (e.g. their RNG to generate your private keys, their instructions to verify and sign you transactions etc.) Overall, "I call bullshit" sounds like teechan isn't possible. It is.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  I'm saying Teechan isn't secure in the way Bitcoin is. Your peers could be cheating and you wouldn't know it.
  - cryptonerdza45 10y ago
    What do you mean? How do you know if your peers are cheating in the Bitcoin network? When they've broadcast a transaction that spends your money? At this point it's already too late. In teechan the processor is responsible for holding your funds until you take them out of the channel. If somehow an attacker could steal them (which is very difficult to do considering the security model!), you would know that they cheated when they spent your funds on the network. I don't see the difference?
    - jcoffland 10y ago
      The teechan processor could steal your money because it's not secure.
cryptonerdza45 10y ago
I think you're wrong: SGX access is available through a license agreement. But more importantly, the contributions here aren't about using Intel SGX. Teechan is agnostic to the secure harware you want to use, as long as it provides the primitives required (e.g. attestation, integrity and coinfidentiality). See this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5jqxxc/scaling_bitcoin_with_secure_hardware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5jqxxc/scaling_bit...
- jcoffland 10y ago
  The whole secure hardware idea is a fallacy.

silversurfer12 10y ago

I hope you wrote this comment using an AMD processor... ;)

jcoffland 10y ago
ARM actually.

ci5er 10y ago

So, step-one, find an trusted, open-source, TPM [crypto co-processor]?

carlitocoolxx 10y ago

If I'm not mistaken: 1) SGX is already shipped in Intel skylake CPU's (i5's and i7's). 2) Development access is publicly also available for anyone who wants to use SGX. Sure, to run an enclave in production mode and to perform remote attestation you need a license with Intel, however this is attainable.. 3) If you don't trust Intel: (i) don't use teechan? It doesn't affect the decentralization of Bitcoin. Bitcoin still has the same trust model, except now, anyone people who DO TRUST Intel can send bitcoins to each other through SGX as well. The rest of the network doesn't need to care; (ii) I guess you trust AMD - unless you've built your own processor from scratch? It seems odd to have a problem with trusting Intel. If you use Bitcoin at all you've probably already trusted Intel (e.g. their RNG to generate your private keys, their instructions to verify and sign you transactions etc.) Overall, "I call bullshit" sounds like teechan isn't possible. It is.

jcoffland 10y ago
I'm saying Teechan isn't secure in the way Bitcoin is. Your peers could be cheating and you wouldn't know it.
- cryptonerdza45 10y ago
  What do you mean? How do you know if your peers are cheating in the Bitcoin network? When they've broadcast a transaction that spends your money? At this point it's already too late. In teechan the processor is responsible for holding your funds until you take them out of the channel. If somehow an attacker could steal them (which is very difficult to do considering the security model!), you would know that they cheated when they spent your funds on the network. I don't see the difference?
  - jcoffland 10y ago
    The teechan processor could steal your money because it's not secure.

cryptonerdza45 10y ago

I think you're wrong: SGX access is available through a license agreement. But more importantly, the contributions here aren't about using Intel SGX. Teechan is agnostic to the secure harware you want to use, as long as it provides the primitives required (e.g. attestation, integrity and coinfidentiality). See this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5jqxxc/scaling_bitcoin_with_secure_hardware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5jqxxc/scaling_bit...

jcoffland 10y ago
The whole secure hardware idea is a fallacy.