6 ms·

I sleep from 9pm to 4am, +/- 30 minutes. I was never a morning person but having a kid changed that out of necessity. From 4pm until 9pm, my life is absolutel

by czep 10y ago

I sleep from 9pm to 4am, +/- 30 minutes. I was never a morning person but having a kid changed that out of necessity. From 4pm until 9pm, my life is absolutely frantic: commute and/or daycare pickup, feed, cleanup, bathe, and by 9 I'm exhausted. My partner stays up to work after my son and i go to bed. I tried that approach but was totally unproductive. Now I get up 2 or 3 hours before anyone else and in that time I get more done than I used to do in a normal 8 hour workday. My team at work mostly get in and stay late which is sometimes difficult because I'm basically out of commission after 3pm. But I like to think I compensate by getting so much done in the early hours. I got dinged on a performance review for ignoring slack messages sent at 6pm. It was hard to swallow because I basically work 11 hours a day. I have to refuse meeting requests after 3pm, and if I get pushback, I offer to reschedule for 5am. Oh that's too early for you? So I have to accept your schedule? Fine, cut me a check for $80 because that's what my daycare charges for late pickups. Oops, this got a little off topic. But as you can see, work/life balance should really be renamed work/sleep balance since I'm working basically every waking minute that I'm possibly able to.

sagichmal 10y ago
> I got dinged on a performance review for ignoring slack messages sent at 6pm. Ugh, that's not reasonable on your manager's part. > I have to refuse meeting requests after 3pm, and if I get pushback, I offer to reschedule for 5am. That's also not really reasonable on your part. Of course it all depends on dynamics and mutual understanding, but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't.
- trcollinson 10y ago
  While you are right that 5am is well outside of normal working hours, I have been at places that will do a 4pm meeting but won't do a 11am meeting because "a number of people won't be in, or won't be ready," and so on. I like the point that was trying to be made. This is why in organizations I run I actually restrict meetings to no more than 60 minutes per day as must be better 10am and 2pm. It's amazing how few meetings organizations really need to get work done.
- czep 10y ago
  > but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't. So I get that, but how else can I approach the situation when I have to leave the office at 3pm in order to get to the daycare in time? I'm not truly expecting the rest of the world to adopt my schedule, but the reason I start working at 4 is precisely to compensate for not being available in the late afternoon. If anything I'm over-compensating because as I said, I usually end up working 11 hours a day. It's sad that people who stay late are routinely lauded as committed heroes, but I get no points for getting 5 or 6 hours of solid work done before most of the company even gets started! Again, I understand that 9-6 (used to be 9-5) is conventional core hours, so how can I defray negative perceptions when I'm physically unable to join meetings or respond to slack messages? Seriously I would love some advice on how to handle this, it's highly stressful and I'm always coming off sounding defensive :(
  - ishields 10y ago
    Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege. I think it's a great thing and I think that it's totally fine to work non-standard hours, but I also think that if you are going to make the choice to not be in the office during core hours (I'd consider 9-5 "core" but I think companies should define this) then it's also your responsibility to be available during those core hours when it's necessary. If a meeting needs to be held at 3 (which is a completely reasonable meeting time within core hours) and you need to be at that meeting then I think it's on you to make accommodations for that by having someone else pick up your kids that day or making some other arrangements since it's your choice to work a nonstandard schedule. Same goes for a 9am meeting and someone who comes in at 11am. In a work environment where employees can make their own schedule I think having "core hours" where every employee is expected to be available at least sometimes is totally reasonable since otherwise your personal schedule is going to be negatively affecting your job performance, and that's a personal responsibility issue, not a job issue.
    - czep 10y ago
      > Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege. I'd like to challenge this, if you'll bear with me. I am not a cog in a machine, I'm not performing mindless repetitive tasks. My work requires exacting concentration and the liberty to set aside large blocks of uninterrupted time in order to be fully productive. I will spin this around: personally, I believe my company should feel privileged to have me work for them. Don't dare tell me I should grovel and feel grateful to my masters allowing me the privilege of a flexible work schedule. Why would they purposely enact counter-productive tactics that would not enable me to perform this work most efficiently? In full disclosure, I do have one standing meeting one day a week at 4pm. On that day my partner will handle the daycare pickup. So I am not categorically opposed to later meetings. What I get upset about is being asked at noon to join a meeting at 4pm on the same day. It is impossible to make the necessary arrangements with such short notice. That's when I get snarky and say how about 5am tomorrow. I understand that by convention it's reasonable to expect people to available during usual 9-5 hours. But don't use the language of "personal responsibility issue" with me about this. I will not allow any implication that I am being irresponsible or slacking off work simply because my schedule demands that I typically leave work at 3pm. It is deeply offensive to me because as I already said, I work my ass off and am far more productive than I used to be when I worked 10-7.
rootusrootus 10y ago
I feel like I could have written your reply myself. 9pm to 4am for me, I'm the first to the office (on our team at least) by about two hours. I leave at 3pm to get the first kid from daycare, then head home and walk over to the school to get the second kid. After that it's 100% family time until I fall into bed. And like you, early morning is my most productive time at work by far. Fortunately my manager and team are totally okay with my hours. I haven't rescheduled any meetings for 5am but I do refuse anything that starts after 2pm and it hasn't been much of a hassle. We also have part of our team in Hyderabad so being in the office early actually works out kinds nice because if I need to I have overlap time with them (they habitually work later hours than we do -- when I was down there visiting, if I got in the office before 10am I'd be the first guy from our team).
Zelmor 10y ago
Very straightforward and educational post. Thank you! I made a choice years ago, but recently started to waiver. You set me straight, and for that I am grateful. I will stick to cats.
- czep 10y ago
  a wise choice :)

by czep 10y ago

sagichmal 10y ago

> I got dinged on a performance review for ignoring slack messages sent at 6pm. Ugh, that's not reasonable on your manager's part. > I have to refuse meeting requests after 3pm, and if I get pushback, I offer to reschedule for 5am. That's also not really reasonable on your part. Of course it all depends on dynamics and mutual understanding, but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't.

trcollinson 10y ago
While you are right that 5am is well outside of normal working hours, I have been at places that will do a 4pm meeting but won't do a 11am meeting because "a number of people won't be in, or won't be ready," and so on. I like the point that was trying to be made. This is why in organizations I run I actually restrict meetings to no more than 60 minutes per day as must be better 10am and 2pm. It's amazing how few meetings organizations really need to get work done.
czep 10y ago
> but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't. So I get that, but how else can I approach the situation when I have to leave the office at 3pm in order to get to the daycare in time? I'm not truly expecting the rest of the world to adopt my schedule, but the reason I start working at 4 is precisely to compensate for not being available in the late afternoon. If anything I'm over-compensating because as I said, I usually end up working 11 hours a day. It's sad that people who stay late are routinely lauded as committed heroes, but I get no points for getting 5 or 6 hours of solid work done before most of the company even gets started! Again, I understand that 9-6 (used to be 9-5) is conventional core hours, so how can I defray negative perceptions when I'm physically unable to join meetings or respond to slack messages? Seriously I would love some advice on how to handle this, it's highly stressful and I'm always coming off sounding defensive :(
- ishields 10y ago
  Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege. I think it's a great thing and I think that it's totally fine to work non-standard hours, but I also think that if you are going to make the choice to not be in the office during core hours (I'd consider 9-5 "core" but I think companies should define this) then it's also your responsibility to be available during those core hours when it's necessary. If a meeting needs to be held at 3 (which is a completely reasonable meeting time within core hours) and you need to be at that meeting then I think it's on you to make accommodations for that by having someone else pick up your kids that day or making some other arrangements since it's your choice to work a nonstandard schedule. Same goes for a 9am meeting and someone who comes in at 11am. In a work environment where employees can make their own schedule I think having "core hours" where every employee is expected to be available at least sometimes is totally reasonable since otherwise your personal schedule is going to be negatively affecting your job performance, and that's a personal responsibility issue, not a job issue.
  - czep 10y ago
    > Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege. I'd like to challenge this, if you'll bear with me. I am not a cog in a machine, I'm not performing mindless repetitive tasks. My work requires exacting concentration and the liberty to set aside large blocks of uninterrupted time in order to be fully productive. I will spin this around: personally, I believe my company should feel privileged to have me work for them. Don't dare tell me I should grovel and feel grateful to my masters allowing me the privilege of a flexible work schedule. Why would they purposely enact counter-productive tactics that would not enable me to perform this work most efficiently? In full disclosure, I do have one standing meeting one day a week at 4pm. On that day my partner will handle the daycare pickup. So I am not categorically opposed to later meetings. What I get upset about is being asked at noon to join a meeting at 4pm on the same day. It is impossible to make the necessary arrangements with such short notice. That's when I get snarky and say how about 5am tomorrow. I understand that by convention it's reasonable to expect people to available during usual 9-5 hours. But don't use the language of "personal responsibility issue" with me about this. I will not allow any implication that I am being irresponsible or slacking off work simply because my schedule demands that I typically leave work at 3pm. It is deeply offensive to me because as I already said, I work my ass off and am far more productive than I used to be when I worked 10-7.

rootusrootus 10y ago

I feel like I could have written your reply myself. 9pm to 4am for me, I'm the first to the office (on our team at least) by about two hours. I leave at 3pm to get the first kid from daycare, then head home and walk over to the school to get the second kid. After that it's 100% family time until I fall into bed. And like you, early morning is my most productive time at work by far. Fortunately my manager and team are totally okay with my hours. I haven't rescheduled any meetings for 5am but I do refuse anything that starts after 2pm and it hasn't been much of a hassle. We also have part of our team in Hyderabad so being in the office early actually works out kinds nice because if I need to I have overlap time with them (they habitually work later hours than we do -- when I was down there visiting, if I got in the office before 10am I'd be the first guy from our team).

Zelmor 10y ago

Very straightforward and educational post. Thank you! I made a choice years ago, but recently started to waiver. You set me straight, and for that I am grateful. I will stick to cats.

czep 10y ago
a wise choice :)