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I like that there aren't any comments on this yet, it means that hopefully people are taking the time to read this. I think the best way someone introduced me

I like that there aren't any comments on this yet, it means that hopefully people are taking the time to read this. I think the best way someone introduced me to Ray Dalio's principles is that it gives employee's the freedom, not to be an asshole, but to cut right to the heart of the problem without worrying about social niceties. it's a common complaint and almost cliche on HN to hear someone say they find American culture ot be a bit "fake" where Fake refers to being polite or dancing around an issue rather than stating it clearly because they're worried about social niceties. Principle 97 comes right out and says "Don’t let people off the hook." and Principle 98 follows up with "Don’t assume that people’s answers are correct." When you are free by the CEO's decree to just flat out not let someone off with a half assed answer I find that you get to the root cause of issues faster. The downside of course is that asshole's are even more pronounced and even the most well meaning people start to sound a bit like assholes. If you have thin skin it doesn't work well, you need to learn that people aren't attacking you, but attacking the problem instead. Not everyone transitions well to this type of environment as it can be a bit of a departure from the norm of many companies existing cultures.

soneca 10y ago
it's a common complaint and almost cliche on HN to hear someone say they find American culture ot be a bit "fake" where Fake refers to being polite or dancing around an issue rather than stating it clearly because they're worried about social niceties. Interesting, I never heard this at HN at all and here in Brazil we have the exact opposite perception: americans are very straightforward in business while we worry too much about niceties, ammenities and excessive politeness that borderlines hypocrisy. We consider this a disadvantage in our culture regarding business.
- krapp 10y ago
  I've seen it when people describe interacting with American wait staff at restaurants or similar venues - apparently not realizing that those employees are often required to act cheerful and aggressively polite to customers or else risk being fired, or losing necessary tips.
  - pja 10y ago
    Speaking as someone from the UK, we know perfectly well that it’s required as part of the job. It’s one of the reasons we hate it so much: because we can tell it’s completely fake & we don’t appreciate being lied to. People in the UK would rather have dour but straightforward service than forced cheeriness that speaks of some kind of “compulsory smiles everyone!” management acting behind the scenes.
    - thesmallestcat 10y ago
      Not everybody's dour.
- ci5er 10y ago
  I've noticed here, in the US, that technical staff will sometimes (often?) feel attacked or challenged by simply asking the question: "Why". It's an important information-seeking question! But, for some reason, in many geographies, here, in the US, people often (apparently) take it to mean something like "I don't agree." or "Justify that.". And that triggers defensiveness, and then you aren't getting information. Because my goal is the information nugget at the end of the quest, I've learned, with most people, until I know them well, to use something like these instead of "why?": - "Interesting. Why did you decide to do it that way?", or - "Really? How did you prioritize the trade-offs to come to that conclusion?" I don't know if that makes Americans thin-skinned, or just sensitive to that one word, or ... what ... but I think that most Americans most of the time would prefer to not offend, and have learned that challenging another person's opinion is viewed by many to be offensive. It's highly inefficient, doesn't work well in multi-lingual meeting settings, so I'd guess the Americans you have been exposed to are are somewhat experienced in international business?
  - shanusmagnus 10y ago
    Is this different from somewhere else that you've been? Or are you just offering the datapoint that you are in the US, and in the US you have observed this to be true? I would think, given my travel and cultural experience, that the US would be one of the least problematic countries from the PoV of being allowed to challenge "authority" and ask "why" without catastrophic career consequences, but would be interested to hear other perspectives.
    - ci5er 10y ago
      I am giving the datapoint, from the US, that I found team-mates, subordinates and managers to all respond defensively when asked a simple straightforward "why". I never found my co-workers to be defensive when I asked them the same question in Japan (in Japanese). I didn't have any subordinates, and management let the group decide, (at our level), so challenging management rarely came up. I agree that asking "why" is probably not a career-ending move in the US -- I'm just talking about the subtle first-response I've notices from other Americans in the first place. I don't know that it has any larger relevance than to maybe lend support to the idea that US workers (or engineers, anyway) are afraid to be wrong in public too.
theoh 10y ago
I believe that it's possible to be rigorous and polite/tactful at the same time. In fact, it's traditional and civilized to aim for that. Excessively tough-minded bluntness is frowned upon for good reason.
- JamilD 10y ago
  Yes, I think there's a balance we need to strike here. Being excessively rude and tough can demotivate employees and decrease productivity, but being too nice and polite won't get the message across.
  - maleck13 10y ago
    I agree with finding a balance. A blunt attack may knock one person's confidence causing them to no longer offer ideas while for another it may encourage them to think a little harder about the problem before offering a solution.
kaleidic 10y ago
There's a link between the process that elsewhere he mentions people need to go through to adapt there - developing a tougher skin is part of it, and that relates to learning to regulate amygdala activation - and current political questions relating to political correctness, triggering, safe spaces and the like. The research suggests that the answer to fear is incremental exposure - see treatment for arachnophobia for example - but that is not how we tend to think about it in our society today. Eg How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/&ved=0ahUKEwjXzJ_Q3orRAhVBWxQKHVLUDbsQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHhD1lh2QCarNrCA5sVVv5HecEpIA&sig2=THTB-1vSU5ZAr7jIjjRG5Q https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http:...
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CaptSpify 10y ago
> The downside of course is that asshole's are even more pronounced and even the most well meaning people start to sound a bit like assholes. I think I have some kind of communication issue because often when I'm asking questions about decisions, people often think I'm arguing against them. Example: My boss decides to make a policy of $x. When I ask why, I can see my boss get frustrated. I'm legitimately asking why, because I'm curious. I'm not trying to be an ass, but I come across that way for some reason I don't understand. I wish I could figure out why, but nobody has been able to articulate to me why they think I'm arguing.
- delluminatus 10y ago
  I find that you need to explicitly state your intentions ahead of time. Otherwise, people assume the worst, and get defensive right away. Then communication closes down. So my method is this: before I even ask the question, I couch it in nonthreatening terms. Usually, I start with a simple compliment. It doesn't even have to be relevant: "Hey boss, that new policy seems pretty neat. What made you implement it all of a sudden?" I find this is effective even if you actually do want them to change their decision. Come in with a compliment, then try to lead them to recognize the flaws in the decision themselves.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    Good idea. I tend to qualify afterwards "Why are we doing that? (I'm not trying to argue, just asking)" and that seems to have helped some, but I wonder if qualifying before would make a difference. Thanks for the idea!
- dasil003 10y ago
  One technique is to guess the reason to the best of your ability: "oh, is policy x so we can be more focused?". That way there's no possible way it can be interpreted as disagreement, just a humble clarification.
Vindicis 10y ago
I've skimmed over this list, and quite frankly, after a certain age, you should have learnt most of these "principles" on your own. Otherwise known as common-sense. Be honest with yourself and others. Self-education is a life-long commitment. Failure to plan is planning to fail. Think for yourself. Think things through. Know when to hold em, and when to fold em. There. I think that covers probably 70% or so what he expounds on in his 210 principles.
- Jarwain 10y ago
  A funny thing I find about common sense is that it isn't very common. Everything that makes up common sense makes sense when brought up or given some thought. However, having it be brought up or thought about in the first place may happen well into an individual's life. That said, I like reading these kinds of articles because I'm still relatively young and yet to experience the full extent of life. I figure being able to collect the wisdom of those who have been around longer than I have will be quite useful.
bitexploder 10y ago
Honesty with compassion and a genuine curiosity for how things got to be the way they are is far different from being a dick disguised as "brutal honesty". Many at bwater that are rude wash out. You are free to find the truth, not free to be a dick.

soneca 10y ago

it's a common complaint and almost cliche on HN to hear someone say they find American culture ot be a bit "fake" where Fake refers to being polite or dancing around an issue rather than stating it clearly because they're worried about social niceties. Interesting, I never heard this at HN at all and here in Brazil we have the exact opposite perception: americans are very straightforward in business while we worry too much about niceties, ammenities and excessive politeness that borderlines hypocrisy. We consider this a disadvantage in our culture regarding business.

krapp 10y ago
I've seen it when people describe interacting with American wait staff at restaurants or similar venues - apparently not realizing that those employees are often required to act cheerful and aggressively polite to customers or else risk being fired, or losing necessary tips.
- pja 10y ago
  Speaking as someone from the UK, we know perfectly well that it’s required as part of the job. It’s one of the reasons we hate it so much: because we can tell it’s completely fake & we don’t appreciate being lied to. People in the UK would rather have dour but straightforward service than forced cheeriness that speaks of some kind of “compulsory smiles everyone!” management acting behind the scenes.
  - thesmallestcat 10y ago
    Not everybody's dour.
ci5er 10y ago
I've noticed here, in the US, that technical staff will sometimes (often?) feel attacked or challenged by simply asking the question: "Why". It's an important information-seeking question! But, for some reason, in many geographies, here, in the US, people often (apparently) take it to mean something like "I don't agree." or "Justify that.". And that triggers defensiveness, and then you aren't getting information. Because my goal is the information nugget at the end of the quest, I've learned, with most people, until I know them well, to use something like these instead of "why?": - "Interesting. Why did you decide to do it that way?", or - "Really? How did you prioritize the trade-offs to come to that conclusion?" I don't know if that makes Americans thin-skinned, or just sensitive to that one word, or ... what ... but I think that most Americans most of the time would prefer to not offend, and have learned that challenging another person's opinion is viewed by many to be offensive. It's highly inefficient, doesn't work well in multi-lingual meeting settings, so I'd guess the Americans you have been exposed to are are somewhat experienced in international business?
- shanusmagnus 10y ago
  Is this different from somewhere else that you've been? Or are you just offering the datapoint that you are in the US, and in the US you have observed this to be true? I would think, given my travel and cultural experience, that the US would be one of the least problematic countries from the PoV of being allowed to challenge "authority" and ask "why" without catastrophic career consequences, but would be interested to hear other perspectives.
  - ci5er 10y ago
    I am giving the datapoint, from the US, that I found team-mates, subordinates and managers to all respond defensively when asked a simple straightforward "why". I never found my co-workers to be defensive when I asked them the same question in Japan (in Japanese). I didn't have any subordinates, and management let the group decide, (at our level), so challenging management rarely came up. I agree that asking "why" is probably not a career-ending move in the US -- I'm just talking about the subtle first-response I've notices from other Americans in the first place. I don't know that it has any larger relevance than to maybe lend support to the idea that US workers (or engineers, anyway) are afraid to be wrong in public too.

theoh 10y ago

I believe that it's possible to be rigorous and polite/tactful at the same time. In fact, it's traditional and civilized to aim for that. Excessively tough-minded bluntness is frowned upon for good reason.

JamilD 10y ago
Yes, I think there's a balance we need to strike here. Being excessively rude and tough can demotivate employees and decrease productivity, but being too nice and polite won't get the message across.
- maleck13 10y ago
  I agree with finding a balance. A blunt attack may knock one person's confidence causing them to no longer offer ideas while for another it may encourage them to think a little harder about the problem before offering a solution.

kaleidic 10y ago

There's a link between the process that elsewhere he mentions people need to go through to adapt there - developing a tougher skin is part of it, and that relates to learning to regulate amygdala activation - and current political questions relating to political correctness, triggering, safe spaces and the like. The research suggests that the answer to fear is incremental exposure - see treatment for arachnophobia for example - but that is not how we tend to think about it in our society today. Eg How Trigger Warnings Are Hurting Mental Health on Campus - The Atlantic https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/&ved=0ahUKEwjXzJ_Q3orRAhVBWxQKHVLUDbsQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNHhD1lh2QCarNrCA5sVVv5HecEpIA&sig2=THTB-1vSU5ZAr7jIjjRG5Q https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http:...

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CaptSpify 10y ago

> The downside of course is that asshole's are even more pronounced and even the most well meaning people start to sound a bit like assholes. I think I have some kind of communication issue because often when I'm asking questions about decisions, people often think I'm arguing against them. Example: My boss decides to make a policy of $x. When I ask why, I can see my boss get frustrated. I'm legitimately asking why, because I'm curious. I'm not trying to be an ass, but I come across that way for some reason I don't understand. I wish I could figure out why, but nobody has been able to articulate to me why they think I'm arguing.

delluminatus 10y ago
I find that you need to explicitly state your intentions ahead of time. Otherwise, people assume the worst, and get defensive right away. Then communication closes down. So my method is this: before I even ask the question, I couch it in nonthreatening terms. Usually, I start with a simple compliment. It doesn't even have to be relevant: "Hey boss, that new policy seems pretty neat. What made you implement it all of a sudden?" I find this is effective even if you actually do want them to change their decision. Come in with a compliment, then try to lead them to recognize the flaws in the decision themselves.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Good idea. I tend to qualify afterwards "Why are we doing that? (I'm not trying to argue, just asking)" and that seems to have helped some, but I wonder if qualifying before would make a difference. Thanks for the idea!
dasil003 10y ago
One technique is to guess the reason to the best of your ability: "oh, is policy x so we can be more focused?". That way there's no possible way it can be interpreted as disagreement, just a humble clarification.

Vindicis 10y ago

I've skimmed over this list, and quite frankly, after a certain age, you should have learnt most of these "principles" on your own. Otherwise known as common-sense. Be honest with yourself and others. Self-education is a life-long commitment. Failure to plan is planning to fail. Think for yourself. Think things through. Know when to hold em, and when to fold em. There. I think that covers probably 70% or so what he expounds on in his 210 principles.

Jarwain 10y ago
A funny thing I find about common sense is that it isn't very common. Everything that makes up common sense makes sense when brought up or given some thought. However, having it be brought up or thought about in the first place may happen well into an individual's life. That said, I like reading these kinds of articles because I'm still relatively young and yet to experience the full extent of life. I figure being able to collect the wisdom of those who have been around longer than I have will be quite useful.

bitexploder 10y ago

Honesty with compassion and a genuine curiosity for how things got to be the way they are is far different from being a dick disguised as "brutal honesty". Many at bwater that are rude wash out. You are free to find the truth, not free to be a dick.