4 ms·

By 'rape' do you mean she had sex outside a legitimate marriage? If so, she is guilty of prostitution or adultery or illicit sex. There is of course no such thi

By 'rape' do you mean she had sex outside a legitimate marriage? If so, she is guilty of prostitution or adultery or illicit sex. There is of course no such thing as marital rape. For rape to be proven there must be multiple adult male witnesses who will testify. The penalty for 'lying' about being raped is a year in jail. And the penalty for abortion is death.

realo 10y ago
Wow. This is sick. Rape has nothing to do with sex or marriage, and everything to do with consent. "Rape" occurs whenever there is no consent. Yes, you can have marital rape. Obviously. If there was no consent, then it is rape and it is illegal ( at least in civilized countries ). Whether the raped person is married or not has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT whatsoever. No consent, then it is rape, and the perpetrator, if caught, will be punished. NOT the raped person, obviously. The rapist. Sick world.
- didgeoridoo 10y ago
  You realize parent is simply describing the rape laws prevalent in parts of the Middle East and North Africa, including Dubai? Not literally endorsing them?
  - realo 10y ago
    Well... parent's post starts as a question, and then proceeds with some seemingly authoritative descriptions. It has no quotation marks and, as written, can not really be interpreted in the way you mention. Given the actual text in the post, your interpretation of the parent's true intentions could be as biased as mine... :)
    - pja 10y ago
      Those authoritative descriptions are exactly the criteria for a rape prosecution in Dubai IIRC. Which I suspect is the parent commentator’s point.
    - miles 10y ago
      Given the poster's other comment in this discussion[1], I think we can agree that a charitable reading is justified. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13244642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13244642
  - apta 10y ago
    Described them incorrectly nonetheless.
- didgeoridoo 10y ago
  (Can't go any deeper on the thread, so responding here instead): I would respectfully suggest that you are being misled by your outrage into a deeply uncharitable interpretation of parent's language. > By 'rape' do you mean she had sex outside a legitimate marriage [which in much MENA law are equivalent acts]? If so, [by the laws of Dubai] she is guilty [in a purely legalistic sense] of prostitution or adultery or illicit sex. There is of course no such thing as marital rape [in the law books of Dubai]. For rape to be proven there must be multiple adult male witnesses who will testify [...I'm not sure how this sentence could be made any clearer]. The penalty for 'lying' [scare quotes emphasize that this is a perspective parent does not personally hold] about being raped is a year in jail. And the penalty for abortion is death [this is also not a matter of opinion, but is actually what happens to women in many MENA countries].
ada1981 10y ago
You are trolling right? Perhaps not as it turns out there are actually people who have somehow come to control material resources that actually believe this.
dang 10y ago
It's clear from your other comments that this is simply describing something you find appalling, as do we all. As the number of readers gets large, though, the long tail of interpretation guarantees that a few will, for whatever random reason, miss the subtext. The cost of such misreadings (pointless off-topic indignation) is high. So when commenting on appalling or other divisive things, please be explicit rather than implicit. This is one case of the general phenomenon—noticeable on HN—that effective communication to large, weakly cohesive groups works differently than to small, close ones. The available range is narrower if one wants not to put the needle in the red. That's a pity, because it gives less latitude for expressing yourself, but putting the needle in the red is much worse.
- crucini 10y ago
  Agreed about the dangers of less than explicit communication. But I'm not appalled by Dubai. If anything, I'm appalled by the childish arrogance and "moral superiority" on display in this thread. There is nothing "hackerish" or clever about getting inflamed against a far-away country you probably know nothing about. Nietzsche has a good quote about this pestilential habit of moral condemnation, which I can't find right now. It's a bad habit, an addiction we should recognize and discard. (Now a thread about the unique ways of the Emirates and how to navigate there would be worthwhile.) People don't talk in this ridiculous, irresponsible way when they have skin in the game. I wouldn't expect loose, childish talk from you, Dan G about moderating forums, because you moderate a forum and know what's involved.
- angry_octet 10y ago
  Ack.
angry_octet 10y ago
Okay people have been very literally minded in reading my comment and did not read the thread context. I probably should assume that is going to happen. To be clear: this is not my opinion of how things should be, but it is the view of gulf states governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_the_United_Ara... Also, lest someone take this as an anti-islam attack, let me be clear that this is about the authoritarian/theocratic oligopoly system over there. The normal people are lovely.
apta 10y ago
> For rape to be proven there must be multiple adult male witnesses who will testify. Wrong.

realo 10y ago

Wow. This is sick. Rape has nothing to do with sex or marriage, and everything to do with consent. "Rape" occurs whenever there is no consent. Yes, you can have marital rape. Obviously. If there was no consent, then it is rape and it is illegal ( at least in civilized countries ). Whether the raped person is married or not has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT whatsoever. No consent, then it is rape, and the perpetrator, if caught, will be punished. NOT the raped person, obviously. The rapist. Sick world.

didgeoridoo 10y ago
You realize parent is simply describing the rape laws prevalent in parts of the Middle East and North Africa, including Dubai? Not literally endorsing them?
- realo 10y ago
  Well... parent's post starts as a question, and then proceeds with some seemingly authoritative descriptions. It has no quotation marks and, as written, can not really be interpreted in the way you mention. Given the actual text in the post, your interpretation of the parent's true intentions could be as biased as mine... :)
  - pja 10y ago
    Those authoritative descriptions are exactly the criteria for a rape prosecution in Dubai IIRC. Which I suspect is the parent commentator’s point.
  - miles 10y ago
    Given the poster's other comment in this discussion[1], I think we can agree that a charitable reading is justified. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13244642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13244642
- apta 10y ago
  Described them incorrectly nonetheless.
didgeoridoo 10y ago
(Can't go any deeper on the thread, so responding here instead): I would respectfully suggest that you are being misled by your outrage into a deeply uncharitable interpretation of parent's language. > By 'rape' do you mean she had sex outside a legitimate marriage [which in much MENA law are equivalent acts]? If so, [by the laws of Dubai] she is guilty [in a purely legalistic sense] of prostitution or adultery or illicit sex. There is of course no such thing as marital rape [in the law books of Dubai]. For rape to be proven there must be multiple adult male witnesses who will testify [...I'm not sure how this sentence could be made any clearer]. The penalty for 'lying' [scare quotes emphasize that this is a perspective parent does not personally hold] about being raped is a year in jail. And the penalty for abortion is death [this is also not a matter of opinion, but is actually what happens to women in many MENA countries].

ada1981 10y ago

You are trolling right? Perhaps not as it turns out there are actually people who have somehow come to control material resources that actually believe this.

dang 10y ago

It's clear from your other comments that this is simply describing something you find appalling, as do we all. As the number of readers gets large, though, the long tail of interpretation guarantees that a few will, for whatever random reason, miss the subtext. The cost of such misreadings (pointless off-topic indignation) is high. So when commenting on appalling or other divisive things, please be explicit rather than implicit. This is one case of the general phenomenon—noticeable on HN—that effective communication to large, weakly cohesive groups works differently than to small, close ones. The available range is narrower if one wants not to put the needle in the red. That's a pity, because it gives less latitude for expressing yourself, but putting the needle in the red is much worse.

crucini 10y ago
Agreed about the dangers of less than explicit communication. But I'm not appalled by Dubai. If anything, I'm appalled by the childish arrogance and "moral superiority" on display in this thread. There is nothing "hackerish" or clever about getting inflamed against a far-away country you probably know nothing about. Nietzsche has a good quote about this pestilential habit of moral condemnation, which I can't find right now. It's a bad habit, an addiction we should recognize and discard. (Now a thread about the unique ways of the Emirates and how to navigate there would be worthwhile.) People don't talk in this ridiculous, irresponsible way when they have skin in the game. I wouldn't expect loose, childish talk from you, Dan G about moderating forums, because you moderate a forum and know what's involved.
angry_octet 10y ago
Ack.

angry_octet 10y ago

Okay people have been very literally minded in reading my comment and did not read the thread context. I probably should assume that is going to happen. To be clear: this is not my opinion of how things should be, but it is the view of gulf states governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_the_United_Arab_Emirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_the_United_Ara... Also, lest someone take this as an anti-islam attack, let me be clear that this is about the authoritarian/theocratic oligopoly system over there. The normal people are lovely.

apta 10y ago

> For rape to be proven there must be multiple adult male witnesses who will testify. Wrong.