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I wrote it in so nice way. I'm usually more harsh to people. Deciding not to have kids because it's too much of an effort is so selfish act. You're throwing aw

I wrote it in so nice way. I'm usually more harsh to people. Deciding not to have kids because it's too much of an effort is so selfish act. You're throwing away all the effort your ancestors put in to get to the point of you being alive.

hyperbovine 10y ago
Having kids is a far more selfish act than not. Our species and our planet would be way, way better off if about 9/10 of us elected not to reproduce for a few generations.
- vixen99 10y ago
  You are presumably delighted to know that Europe is in fact dying off with only France having a fertility rate of 2.0 (2014) which is not enough to sustain the population. One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states. At < 2 replacement rate, the populations of Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria just won't be around in a few generations. The cultural identity of Europe will disappear on present trends.
  - hyperbovine 10y ago
    Relying on fertility to prop up the welfare state was never a sustainable model to begin with. The adjustment will not be pleasant whoever is left in 200 or so years will be a lot better off because of it. To say nothing of all the non-human species with whom we share the world.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    > One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states. Can't pay for it. It's all gonna collapse =)
- pier25 10y ago
  Couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons we decided to not have kids. There are too many humans consuming too many resources in an unsustainable lifestyle.
pitay 10y ago
Let's not get caught up on what dead ancestors may think. The world is already overpopulated. Overpopulation causes depletion of natural resources, degradation of the environment, conflicts and wars caused by such lack of resources, and there being less resources per capita. Adding people when it is causing problems like these is harmful. However, people having 2 or 3 or thereabouts children isn't something to be worried about too much, so go ahead if you want to. But people who have lots of children has to stop. This is per person, so it includes men who have children with different partners. If it is left too late, then less can be done about it.
- pc86 10y ago
  Just in terms of numbers isn't a man having a single child each with 10 women better than 10 couples each having two kids?
  - pitay 10y ago
    In response to your question, have another question. Does a man having a child with woman mean she won't have other children? I don't see any reason it does. Would a man having a child with 10 women cause huge social problem? It certainly does. Do you want to be a single woman with kids? Doubt it. Why should men get special status over women with the number of children they have? I really don't see any reason for that. There are men who deliberately get women pregnant and then leave them because they think they are great and winning life because they have so many children and let other people care for them. Those sort of people would support only having limits applied to women.
    - pc86 10y ago
      > Why should men get special status over women with the number of children they have? I never said they should. > There are men who deliberately get women pregnant and then leave them What in the world does that have to do with anything? > Those sort of people would support only having limits applied to women. What are you talking about? I never said anything about any sort of limit.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hodder 10y ago
You are normally "way more harsh to people" for making the very personal decision as to whether they will have children? You do realize just how offensive you are being? Whether other people have children is not for you to decide or deride.
- pc86 10y ago
  > I'd put this up there with racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. This is probably the most offensive thing in this thread. You are allowed to disagree with other people's choices. You are allowed to voice that disagreement, even publicly. People are allowed to think you're stupid for caring whether or not someone else has children. Nothing about any of that is even remotely "discrimination" and to imply it's anywhere in the same universe as racism or sexism is offensive to real problems everywhere.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - hodder 10y ago
    I'd argue that being harsh to women for their reproductive choices is a key component of modern sexism. Discrimination has a variety of forms.
    - imesh 10y ago
      What do women have to do with it?
    - aisofteng 10y ago
      It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Stop trying to shoehorn cries of sexism into everything.
      - hodder 10y ago
        Sure. And women and men can both obviously face discrimination over their reproductive choices. The discrimination just disproportionally falls on women. Ie. less likely to be hired because she may have children. Expected behaviours and judgements if she doesn't.
Smaug123 10y ago
> You're throwing away all the effort How many children must one have before one is morally absolved of this sin?
- babuskov 10y ago
  Zero. I only wrote that for those citing "it's too much of an effort" as a reason not the have kids.
  - Smaug123 10y ago
    I intended to ask: how many children must I have before I'm allowed to cite "it's too much of an effort" as my reason for not having another child?
    - babuskov 10y ago
      The topic is deciding to have kids or not. I doesn't matter how many.
      - Smaug123 10y ago
        As I understand it, though, the argument applies almost equally to deciding whether to have fewer than $n$ children, whether $n$ is 1 or larger.
criddell 10y ago
You have no idea what his ancestors wanted. I have two kids and whether or not they have kids makes no difference at all to me. Likewise, my parents never pressured me to have kids.
tripzilch 10y ago
Most of our ancestors didn't get to reproduce all that offspring by being nice guys. If you think about it for a moment they can't nearly have been as noble as they're made out to be, by far. Reproduction is not a virtue in and of itself. There will come a moment when the next generation will not forgive us for this overpopulated earth. But of course I never tell my friends what I really think when they tell me the happy news of their expectancy ...

hyperbovine 10y ago

Having kids is a far more selfish act than not. Our species and our planet would be way, way better off if about 9/10 of us elected not to reproduce for a few generations.

vixen99 10y ago
You are presumably delighted to know that Europe is in fact dying off with only France having a fertility rate of 2.0 (2014) which is not enough to sustain the population. One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states. At < 2 replacement rate, the populations of Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria just won't be around in a few generations. The cultural identity of Europe will disappear on present trends.
- hyperbovine 10y ago
  Relying on fertility to prop up the welfare state was never a sustainable model to begin with. The adjustment will not be pleasant whoever is left in 200 or so years will be a lot better off because of it. To say nothing of all the non-human species with whom we share the world.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > One wonders who's going to be paying those taxes to fund the pensions of the elderly and the other massive liabilities of the European welfare states. Can't pay for it. It's all gonna collapse =)
pier25 10y ago
Couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons we decided to not have kids. There are too many humans consuming too many resources in an unsustainable lifestyle.

pitay 10y ago

Let's not get caught up on what dead ancestors may think. The world is already overpopulated. Overpopulation causes depletion of natural resources, degradation of the environment, conflicts and wars caused by such lack of resources, and there being less resources per capita. Adding people when it is causing problems like these is harmful. However, people having 2 or 3 or thereabouts children isn't something to be worried about too much, so go ahead if you want to. But people who have lots of children has to stop. This is per person, so it includes men who have children with different partners. If it is left too late, then less can be done about it.

pc86 10y ago
Just in terms of numbers isn't a man having a single child each with 10 women better than 10 couples each having two kids?
- pitay 10y ago
  In response to your question, have another question. Does a man having a child with woman mean she won't have other children? I don't see any reason it does. Would a man having a child with 10 women cause huge social problem? It certainly does. Do you want to be a single woman with kids? Doubt it. Why should men get special status over women with the number of children they have? I really don't see any reason for that. There are men who deliberately get women pregnant and then leave them because they think they are great and winning life because they have so many children and let other people care for them. Those sort of people would support only having limits applied to women.
  - pc86 10y ago
    > Why should men get special status over women with the number of children they have? I never said they should. > There are men who deliberately get women pregnant and then leave them What in the world does that have to do with anything? > Those sort of people would support only having limits applied to women. What are you talking about? I never said anything about any sort of limit.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hodder 10y ago

You are normally "way more harsh to people" for making the very personal decision as to whether they will have children? You do realize just how offensive you are being? Whether other people have children is not for you to decide or deride.

pc86 10y ago
> I'd put this up there with racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. This is probably the most offensive thing in this thread. You are allowed to disagree with other people's choices. You are allowed to voice that disagreement, even publicly. People are allowed to think you're stupid for caring whether or not someone else has children. Nothing about any of that is even remotely "discrimination" and to imply it's anywhere in the same universe as racism or sexism is offensive to real problems everywhere.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hodder 10y ago
  I'd argue that being harsh to women for their reproductive choices is a key component of modern sexism. Discrimination has a variety of forms.
  - imesh 10y ago
    What do women have to do with it?
  - aisofteng 10y ago
    It takes a man and a woman to have a child. Stop trying to shoehorn cries of sexism into everything.
    - hodder 10y ago
      Sure. And women and men can both obviously face discrimination over their reproductive choices. The discrimination just disproportionally falls on women. Ie. less likely to be hired because she may have children. Expected behaviours and judgements if she doesn't.

Smaug123 10y ago

> You're throwing away all the effort How many children must one have before one is morally absolved of this sin?

babuskov 10y ago
Zero. I only wrote that for those citing "it's too much of an effort" as a reason not the have kids.
- Smaug123 10y ago
  I intended to ask: how many children must I have before I'm allowed to cite "it's too much of an effort" as my reason for not having another child?
  - babuskov 10y ago
    The topic is deciding to have kids or not. I doesn't matter how many.
    - Smaug123 10y ago
      As I understand it, though, the argument applies almost equally to deciding whether to have fewer than $n$ children, whether $n$ is 1 or larger.

criddell 10y ago

You have no idea what his ancestors wanted. I have two kids and whether or not they have kids makes no difference at all to me. Likewise, my parents never pressured me to have kids.

tripzilch 10y ago

Most of our ancestors didn't get to reproduce all that offspring by being nice guys. If you think about it for a moment they can't nearly have been as noble as they're made out to be, by far. Reproduction is not a virtue in and of itself. There will come a moment when the next generation will not forgive us for this overpopulated earth. But of course I never tell my friends what I really think when they tell me the happy news of their expectancy ...