5 ms·

'Historic' day as first non-latin web addresses go live

30 points by yanw 17y ago

andybak 17y ago
Any live examples yet?
- guelo 17y ago
  http://وزارة-الأتصالات.مصر http://وزارة-الأتصالات.مصر
  - locopati 17y ago
    Is it the browser or HN that's turning that URL into http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ ?
    - hubb 17y ago
      From TFA: Icann warned that the internationalised domain names (IDNs), as they are known, would also not work on all PCs immediately. "You may see a mangled string of letters and numbers, and perhaps some percent signs or a couple of "xn--"s mixed into the address bar," said Mr Davies. "Or it may not work at all."
    - BigZaphod 17y ago
      That is how Internationalized Domain Names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name) are encoded by the browser and/or OS to get around the fact that a lot of legacy systems assumed only ASCII characters would ever be used. There's RFCs that cover this which have been around for a number of years. Today is hardly the first day these have been live. (Correction: Doing this for the TLD is new.) On Twitter, various URL shorteners have started becoming popular which are using non-ASCII characters in the domain names. Related: I recently put together a package for iPhone developers that adds some support for IDN to NSURL (this code will be deployed in the next update of Twitterrific for iPad). http://files.iconfactory.net/sean/NSURL+IFUnicodeURL/ http://files.iconfactory.net/sean/NSURL+IFUnicodeURL/
    - sorbits 17y ago
      The xn--… stuff is the real URL as it exists in the DNS. Conversion to/from the user’s script is supposed to be done by the browser. This has existed for quite a while, the new thing is that previously the TLD (i.e. country code) still had to be the old ASCII ISO code. Now even the TLD can be encoded, so that it will display in the country’s native script. So far there are 3 non-ASCII TLDs registered (that is, in the DNS they are still ASCII using puny coding). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puny_code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puny_code
    - kijeda 17y ago
      If the link works, but your browser's address bar shows the wire form with "xn--" in it, it is due to the browser's security policy. For example, Firefox will only display IDNs correctly for TLDs they approve of: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/tld-idn-policy-list.html http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/tld-idn-policy-list...
    - aw3c2 17y ago
      Opera displays it with the actual characters.
    - epochwolf 17y ago
      Works in Safari.
  - clistctrl 17y ago
    I really enjoy chromes translate feature, It translated the text on the page well. However it fails on the text that is actually part of an image. I wonder if they have any plans in the future to use OCR on images during the translate process?
    - mmacaulay 17y ago
      That's the first of the translate feature I've seen (trying Chrome 5 beta as my primary), didn't work for me on that page though - internal server error.
MWinther 17y ago
"biggest change" to the net "since it was invented 40 years ago"? Methinks not. Although on the more fundamental DNS level I can imagine they have a point.
Bjoern 17y ago
While I appreciate change and improvements, I just wonder if this is really a good idea. Websites are language specific but URLs were forced to a limited character set. This was making it at least easy for everybody to type it. No matter if the website is chinese, japanese, arabic, etc. (Sort of least common denominator) Am I the only one who thinks this? EDIT: Spelling
- inerte 17y ago
  Well, if the standard url naming was chinese characters (ie: what everybody is typing), do you think it would be easy for you? I think you would like to type/access urls in your own language.
  - Bjoern 17y ago
    Interesting thought. I suppose if computers were originating from China that would probably be the case. I doubt though that if they wanted to sell it to some other countries, the buyers, e.g. US, Europe consumers etc. would accept that increased complexity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
- joubert 17y ago
  Don't more people on earth write in non-Latin script?
kadavy 17y ago
Okay, so where can I buy a bunch of domains?
simonw 17y ago
And someone's already got http://www.xn--b1avn2f.com/ http://www.xn--b1avn2f.com/ - a.k.a. HSBC.com :/
- studer 17y ago
  Registered in December last year, it seems. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the related searches are "Virus Software", "Virus", "Virus Trojan", etc. Not sure what "Ford" is doing in that list, though.
dkarl 17y ago
Any Persian examples? I'd like to surprise a friend. Perhaps HNers can post an example for each script or language.
- kijeda 17y ago
  The only such Persian URL is the URL ICANN deployed a number of years as part of its testing of IDNs. http://مثال.آزمایشی http://مثال.آزمایشی
motvbi 17y ago
How does one regiter these domain names? Are there any registrar who currently support this?
thechangelog 17y ago
Spare a thought for maintainers of URL parsers and validators today. [a-z0-9-] just isn't going to cut it anymore.
jluxenberg 17y ago
"All three are Arabic script domains, and will enable domain names written fully right-to-left," The URL itself will still read left-to-right, so this doesn't seem like a big win.

30 points by yanw 17y ago

andybak 17y ago

Any live examples yet?

guelo 17y ago
http://وزارة-الأتصالات.مصر http://وزارة-الأتصالات.مصر
- locopati 17y ago
  Is it the browser or HN that's turning that URL into http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ http://xn----rmckbbajlc6dj7bxne2c.xn--wgbh1c/ ?
  - hubb 17y ago
    From TFA: Icann warned that the internationalised domain names (IDNs), as they are known, would also not work on all PCs immediately. "You may see a mangled string of letters and numbers, and perhaps some percent signs or a couple of "xn--"s mixed into the address bar," said Mr Davies. "Or it may not work at all."
  - BigZaphod 17y ago
    That is how Internationalized Domain Names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name) are encoded by the browser and/or OS to get around the fact that a lot of legacy systems assumed only ASCII characters would ever be used. There's RFCs that cover this which have been around for a number of years. Today is hardly the first day these have been live. (Correction: Doing this for the TLD is new.) On Twitter, various URL shorteners have started becoming popular which are using non-ASCII characters in the domain names. Related: I recently put together a package for iPhone developers that adds some support for IDN to NSURL (this code will be deployed in the next update of Twitterrific for iPad). http://files.iconfactory.net/sean/NSURL+IFUnicodeURL/ http://files.iconfactory.net/sean/NSURL+IFUnicodeURL/
  - sorbits 17y ago
    The xn--… stuff is the real URL as it exists in the DNS. Conversion to/from the user’s script is supposed to be done by the browser. This has existed for quite a while, the new thing is that previously the TLD (i.e. country code) still had to be the old ASCII ISO code. Now even the TLD can be encoded, so that it will display in the country’s native script. So far there are 3 non-ASCII TLDs registered (that is, in the DNS they are still ASCII using puny coding). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puny_code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puny_code
  - kijeda 17y ago
    If the link works, but your browser's address bar shows the wire form with "xn--" in it, it is due to the browser's security policy. For example, Firefox will only display IDNs correctly for TLDs they approve of: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/tld-idn-policy-list.html http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/tld-idn-policy-list...
  - aw3c2 17y ago
    Opera displays it with the actual characters.
  - epochwolf 17y ago
    Works in Safari.
- clistctrl 17y ago
  I really enjoy chromes translate feature, It translated the text on the page well. However it fails on the text that is actually part of an image. I wonder if they have any plans in the future to use OCR on images during the translate process?
  - mmacaulay 17y ago
    That's the first of the translate feature I've seen (trying Chrome 5 beta as my primary), didn't work for me on that page though - internal server error.

MWinther 17y ago

"biggest change" to the net "since it was invented 40 years ago"? Methinks not. Although on the more fundamental DNS level I can imagine they have a point.

Bjoern 17y ago

While I appreciate change and improvements, I just wonder if this is really a good idea. Websites are language specific but URLs were forced to a limited character set. This was making it at least easy for everybody to type it. No matter if the website is chinese, japanese, arabic, etc. (Sort of least common denominator) Am I the only one who thinks this? EDIT: Spelling

inerte 17y ago
Well, if the standard url naming was chinese characters (ie: what everybody is typing), do you think it would be easy for you? I think you would like to type/access urls in your own language.
- Bjoern 17y ago
  Interesting thought. I suppose if computers were originating from China that would probably be the case. I doubt though that if they wanted to sell it to some other countries, the buyers, e.g. US, Europe consumers etc. would accept that increased complexity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca
joubert 17y ago
Don't more people on earth write in non-Latin script?

kadavy 17y ago

Okay, so where can I buy a bunch of domains?

simonw 17y ago

And someone's already got http://www.xn--b1avn2f.com/ http://www.xn--b1avn2f.com/ - a.k.a. HSBC.com :/

studer 17y ago
Registered in December last year, it seems. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the related searches are "Virus Software", "Virus", "Virus Trojan", etc. Not sure what "Ford" is doing in that list, though.

dkarl 17y ago

Any Persian examples? I'd like to surprise a friend. Perhaps HNers can post an example for each script or language.

kijeda 17y ago
The only such Persian URL is the URL ICANN deployed a number of years as part of its testing of IDNs. http://مثال.آزمایشی http://مثال.آزمایشی

motvbi 17y ago

How does one regiter these domain names? Are there any registrar who currently support this?

thechangelog 17y ago

Spare a thought for maintainers of URL parsers and validators today. [a-z0-9-] just isn't going to cut it anymore.

jluxenberg 17y ago

"All three are Arabic script domains, and will enable domain names written fully right-to-left," The URL itself will still read left-to-right, so this doesn't seem like a big win.