4 ms·

Your argument is poor, too. I see people starting conversations in subways all the time, and occasionally start them myself. I've never regretted it. Driving ba

by ak217 10y ago

Your argument is poor, too. I see people starting conversations in subways all the time, and occasionally start them myself. I've never regretted it. Driving back from work in a bunch of cars, it's of course impossible, and it's amazing how easy it is to get angry with other drivers. It's easier to meet people in a city, where the 5 miles of a bus ride can cover a neighborhood of a hundred thousand people and hundreds of venues to meet them, while the freeway ride in a suburb will cover less than ten thousand. And what does living with someone have to do with it? We're talking about interacting with people outside your house. I think US urban planning has certainly sucked, and the sprawl will hurt us socially as well as economically.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
closeparen 10y ago
>I see people starting conversations in subways all the time Where? In New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, the only people who do that are begging, preaching, or rambling incoherently. The sense of community I'll observe on a public transit vehicle is when something has gone wrong, or when everyone shares a look of relief after someone who was trying to start unwanted interactions has left. Granted there are some magical moments like the sax battle [0] that could never happen on a freeway, but did any of those people exchange contact information or form any lasting connection? There are people who will sit down next to you and start talking. Groups of friends traveling together will "rescue" each other from these interactions. People traveling solo will just get off and move to another car, or wait for the next train. The mood afterword is "can you believe that creep?" not "wow aren't we so connected!" > It's easier to meet people in a city, From a pure numbers perspective, there are more people to meet per unit area. But are there more people to meet per travel minute by fastest viable means? I doubt it. If we accept 50 minutes (time for a walk to bus to train journey from mid south side to near north side Chicago by CTA), well, that is 50 miles at 60mph. If my friend lives in a distant suburb it is not a problem, I can drive to his home in 10 minutes. If my friend lives in a distant urban neighborhood, I'm looking at a 50-minute 3-segment public transit journey. You also have less free time living in a public-transit-oriented city. A New Yorker whose primary mode is the subway spends 90 minutes per day commuting [1]. A national average car commuter spends just 51 [2]. What would you do with an extra 3 hours per week? I'd see friends more often. > And what does living with someone have to do with it? Parent claims it is a problem that people live in separate boxes. Density does prevent this, in that real estate contention means relatively few people can afford their own box, but I claim that roommates of economic necessity don't actually strengthen social ties that well, and may weaken them. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ [1] http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/files/Embargoed%20Hardest%20Working%20Cities%20Study.pdf http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazo... [2] https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42.000/-89.500 https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42...
- btmorex 10y ago
  If you're the type of person who thinks it's creepy for a random stranger to start a conversation with you, a random stranger (who's not a creep) will never start a conversation with you.
- danenania 10y ago
  Just chiming in as another New Yorker who has spent lots of time on the subway and seen/overheard plenty of random interactions and conversations between strangers that aren't at all 'creepy' or one-sided. It's not that common, but definitely happens occasionally if you take the train a lot.
- karmelapple 10y ago
  > Where? In New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, the only people who do that are begging, preaching, or rambling incoherently. Agree with the other replies to you; I've had lovely chats with people on the subway in literally all three of the cities when I've visited. Also at the laundromat, or at a bar, at a museum, and other places. > ...did any of those people exchange contact information or form any lasting connection? I never made a lifelong friend from these conversations (though I have received business cards or other contact info), but I got a sense that I mattered to a stranger, even if only for a little bit. That's certainly part of what the article is talking about. > The mood afterword is "can you believe that creep?" not "wow aren't we so connected!" I can genuinely tell you that many conversations I've had did not end with either side thinking the other was creepy. Of course, I've avoided conversations with people who I felt were creepy. Typically, these conversations happen when the person is speaking to me and I've given pretty clear body and vocal language that I am not interested in speaking. I do my best to initiate chatting only with people who show interest in talking. Having an idea of who's interested in that takes practice, and some other identification skill I have a hard time describing, but which would likely fit the definition of "emotional intelligence." # # # Here's a little chestnut similar to what btmorex mentioned: A young couple moved to a new town, and upon driving up to their new home for the first time, saw their neighbors outside. After a few pleasantries, the young couple asked, "So, we're wondering, what are the people like around here? Is it a good place to live?" The neighbor paused, then said, "What were your neighbors like at your last town?" The young couple agreed, "they were great!" The neighbor, audibly relieved, said, "well they'll be great here, too." # # # What you look for and expect from others will greatly color your experiences. I figure most people are generally friendly, and I tend to be able to recognize when someone wants to chat... and they likely see my desire for a friendly chat, too.

by ak217 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

closeparen 10y ago

>I see people starting conversations in subways all the time Where? In New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, the only people who do that are begging, preaching, or rambling incoherently. The sense of community I'll observe on a public transit vehicle is when something has gone wrong, or when everyone shares a look of relief after someone who was trying to start unwanted interactions has left. Granted there are some magical moments like the sax battle [0] that could never happen on a freeway, but did any of those people exchange contact information or form any lasting connection? There are people who will sit down next to you and start talking. Groups of friends traveling together will "rescue" each other from these interactions. People traveling solo will just get off and move to another car, or wait for the next train. The mood afterword is "can you believe that creep?" not "wow aren't we so connected!" > It's easier to meet people in a city, From a pure numbers perspective, there are more people to meet per unit area. But are there more people to meet per travel minute by fastest viable means? I doubt it. If we accept 50 minutes (time for a walk to bus to train journey from mid south side to near north side Chicago by CTA), well, that is 50 miles at 60mph. If my friend lives in a distant suburb it is not a problem, I can drive to his home in 10 minutes. If my friend lives in a distant urban neighborhood, I'm looking at a 50-minute 3-segment public transit journey. You also have less free time living in a public-transit-oriented city. A New Yorker whose primary mode is the subway spends 90 minutes per day commuting [1]. A national average car commuter spends just 51 [2]. What would you do with an extra 3 hours per week? I'd see friends more often. > And what does living with someone have to do with it? Parent claims it is a problem that people live in separate boxes. Density does prevent this, in that real estate contention means relatively few people can afford their own box, but I claim that roommates of economic necessity don't actually strengthen social ties that well, and may weaken them. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_9IMZcbKHQ [1] http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/files/Embargoed%20Hardest%20Working%20Cities%20Study.pdf http://origin-states.politico.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazo... [2] https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42.000/-89.500 https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42...

btmorex 10y ago
If you're the type of person who thinks it's creepy for a random stranger to start a conversation with you, a random stranger (who's not a creep) will never start a conversation with you.
danenania 10y ago
Just chiming in as another New Yorker who has spent lots of time on the subway and seen/overheard plenty of random interactions and conversations between strangers that aren't at all 'creepy' or one-sided. It's not that common, but definitely happens occasionally if you take the train a lot.
karmelapple 10y ago
> Where? In New York, Chicago, and San Francisco, the only people who do that are begging, preaching, or rambling incoherently. Agree with the other replies to you; I've had lovely chats with people on the subway in literally all three of the cities when I've visited. Also at the laundromat, or at a bar, at a museum, and other places. > ...did any of those people exchange contact information or form any lasting connection? I never made a lifelong friend from these conversations (though I have received business cards or other contact info), but I got a sense that I mattered to a stranger, even if only for a little bit. That's certainly part of what the article is talking about. > The mood afterword is "can you believe that creep?" not "wow aren't we so connected!" I can genuinely tell you that many conversations I've had did not end with either side thinking the other was creepy. Of course, I've avoided conversations with people who I felt were creepy. Typically, these conversations happen when the person is speaking to me and I've given pretty clear body and vocal language that I am not interested in speaking. I do my best to initiate chatting only with people who show interest in talking. Having an idea of who's interested in that takes practice, and some other identification skill I have a hard time describing, but which would likely fit the definition of "emotional intelligence." # # # Here's a little chestnut similar to what btmorex mentioned: A young couple moved to a new town, and upon driving up to their new home for the first time, saw their neighbors outside. After a few pleasantries, the young couple asked, "So, we're wondering, what are the people like around here? Is it a good place to live?" The neighbor paused, then said, "What were your neighbors like at your last town?" The young couple agreed, "they were great!" The neighbor, audibly relieved, said, "well they'll be great here, too." # # # What you look for and expect from others will greatly color your experiences. I figure most people are generally friendly, and I tend to be able to recognize when someone wants to chat... and they likely see my desire for a friendly chat, too.