6 ms·

Palantir helps authorities track illegal immigrants

27 points by phr4ts 10y ago

mindcrime 10y ago
Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping illegal immigrants avoid the government?
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  Are you for open borders? No? Then illegal immigrants are going to exist.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    Are you for open borders? Yes. For the most part, I oppose the idea of nation-states and most of what people call "government" altogether. I support free movement of people, ideas, consumer goods, etc. As far as I'm concerned, as long as no use of coercive force / aggression is involved, it's all good.
- cryptarch 10y ago
  I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional. How about a self-surveillance platform to measure your footprint? The idea is basically an automated network-level CTF. Get as much data out as possible, then report back with the results. You could do this with a group of friends (feed all your friends data into your analysis box), to yourself (and all your devices baring OS restrictions), or with a larger group of security-minded individuals. For extra fun, if you're capturing the traffic on your own machines, you could have a tool that extracts network encryption keys from memory, which should work similarly for programs using the same encryption stack, and you then feed that into the network analysis tool. You could then use this to make sure you're not sending out data you don't want to send out in the first place; ideally you'd get to the point where your analysis tool can decrypt every packet, so that you're sure you're not sending out any data that you don't want to get out. PANDA looks like an interesting tool to automate the retrieval of encryption keys; it can replay full process executions using a modified version of QEMU, and find procedures that convert high entropy data (i.e. encrypted or compressed data) to lower entropy data. Coincidentally, if you get this up and running you can also automate the breaking of (encryption-based) DRM; that's just a side effect of gaining fuller control over your general-purpose computer. Oops.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional. Well, it probably wasn't as well thought out as you might have hoped, but there's no question there's at least thin connection between my username and most of my positions on things. The comment I made above was kind of just spur of the moment, off the cuff, to be honest. I have a fundamental and visceral disdain for government, and especially anything that hints at that Big Brother / Orwell-esque world of Nineteen Eighty Four. And it especially pains me to see technologists/hackers willfully taking part in supporting government oppression of free people. So of course I'm going to make an offhanded comment about how we should do the exact opposite. And I feel a little snarky now, because people are always referring to Peter Thiel as a "libertarian" and this strikes me as extremely un-libertarian. And as a libertarian myself, I don't want Thiel misleading a lot of people about how libertarian ideals. You could then use this to make sure you're not sending out data you don't want to send out in the first place; ideally you'd get to the point where your analysis tool can decrypt every packet, so that you're sure you're not sending out any data that you don't want to get out. Sounds something like an inverse IDS. I know there are some tools out there now for monitoring outgoing traffic, but not sure if there's anything with that specific spin on it. You might be onto something there.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- SilasX 10y ago
  Yes, it's called "people smuggling" or "coyotes". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    I actually was thinking more about "avoiding the government" for immigrants who are already here, and over the long term, than the actual border crossing bit. But that was an interesting read nonetheless. Thanks for sharing.
234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping tax cheats avoid the government. Or maybe it's time for illegal immigrants to follow the law, just like thousands of legal immigrants do? Maybe they can pay taxes for the social welfare resources they use, the free college, the free medical expenses. Do you know how frustrating it is for legal immigrants who worked hard to become legal and follow the law watch other illegal immigrants trample on the laws without regard? It's very frustrating.
- nodesocket 10y ago
  The angel-immigrant stigma is just as biased as the evil-immigrant stigma. You make great and valid points, but you're going to downvoted to death. I however gave you an upvote. Merry Christmas.
- unmole 10y ago
  US citizens don't have access to free college and healthcare but somehow illegal immigrants do?
  - 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/12/u-california-rolls-out-25m-fund-illegal-immigrants/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/12/u-california... One example. Read up on it. This is a public school, funded with your tax dollars. Tax dollars that will be spent on people who break the law, throw it in your face, and then demand more free stuff.
- unmole 10y ago
  US citizens don't have access to free college and healthcare but somehow illegal immigrants do?
- zdean 10y ago
  In regards to paying taxes and social welfare resources, they actually contribute quite a bit: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/... And in a perverse turn of events, they probably help some social welfare programs (ie Social Security) because they can never receive those benefits.
mwilcox 10y ago
Palantir is hardly a startup
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Seriously... I dont know why I bothered clicking the title thinking it was a new company. Just the same datamining company that helps government agencies helping a government agency.
- throwaway1216 10y ago
  Of all the comments you could possibly post, ranging from concerns about the 1st or 4th amendments, to arguments in favor of what this article posits, "Palantir is hardly a startup" is what you take away from this article?
- dang 10y ago
  Ok, we put 'Palantir' in the title above.
hprotagonist 10y ago
>"They are not all accounted for, the lost Seeing Stones. We do not know who else may be watching!"
twblalock 10y ago
Thiel calls himself a libertarian, but his involvement with Palantir demonstrates that he is just as much a big-government statist as the people he criticizes.
- mixedCase 10y ago
  Libertarian doesn't equal open borders, as that's a broad political spectrum. Hell, even some anarcho-capitalists (like the late Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe) are against open borders.
  - throwaw12ay 10y ago
    I think the point is like Musk, these people hardly refuse government subsidizes. You might argue they provide a service, they are not getting a handout, but it's still paid by the same taxes they want to get rid off at first place.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      Libertarians are not universally against taxation or Government involvement at large, it's a pretty wide umbrella. Musk can also be seen as a libertarian but he does advocate for social programmes like UBI which have to be provided through taxation. Most libertarians I know are not universally against taxation, they are against double taxation and would prefer to tax corporation and consumption at higher rates rather than individual labor. Libertarianism is primarily about the role of the government within the life of an individual and about maximizing the agency an individual holds over their own life; It doesn't mean that an ideal libertarian society would have no taxes; If anything most libertarians would rather pay higher local taxes to offset lower national taxation because they have more agency in determining on what and how their money is being spent on. Libertarians don't want anarchy, they are fully aware that roads, schools, police, firefighters, EMT's the military and for most of them even hospitals and much more have to be publically funded, and the only way to do it is through taxation.
      - 10y ago
evanwolf 10y ago
This startup helps hackers track Peter Thiel's immoral startups.
- nodesocket 10y ago
  Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Undocumented workers still pay tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Institute_on_Taxation_and_Economic_Policy_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... > The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]
    - nodesocket 10y ago
      That can't be right. According to the Wall Street Journal [1] there is a total of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US as a whole. [1] - http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-holds-steady-at-11-million-1474394518 http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-...
      - cryptarch 10y ago
        Estimates range from 11 to 16 million illegal immigrants, though a few years ago the highest one was at 20 million.
        10y ago
mzw_mzw 10y ago
Engadget? Aren't they part of that revenge porn outfit that was sued into bankruptcy a little while back? In fact, I recall that Peter Thiel helped fund the lawsuit against them. Huh. What a coincidence.
- nodesocket 10y ago
  Thus this negative hit piece against him perhaps?
- cholantesh 10y ago
  Nope, Gawker's electronics blog is Gizmodo. Also Gawker is more of a gossip rag than a 'revenge porn outfit'...

27 points by phr4ts 10y ago

mindcrime 10y ago

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping illegal immigrants avoid the government?

mzw_mzw 10y ago
Are you for open borders? No? Then illegal immigrants are going to exist.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  Are you for open borders? Yes. For the most part, I oppose the idea of nation-states and most of what people call "government" altogether. I support free movement of people, ideas, consumer goods, etc. As far as I'm concerned, as long as no use of coercive force / aggression is involved, it's all good.
cryptarch 10y ago
I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional. How about a self-surveillance platform to measure your footprint? The idea is basically an automated network-level CTF. Get as much data out as possible, then report back with the results. You could do this with a group of friends (feed all your friends data into your analysis box), to yourself (and all your devices baring OS restrictions), or with a larger group of security-minded individuals. For extra fun, if you're capturing the traffic on your own machines, you could have a tool that extracts network encryption keys from memory, which should work similarly for programs using the same encryption stack, and you then feed that into the network analysis tool. You could then use this to make sure you're not sending out data you don't want to send out in the first place; ideally you'd get to the point where your analysis tool can decrypt every packet, so that you're sure you're not sending out any data that you don't want to get out. PANDA looks like an interesting tool to automate the retrieval of encryption keys; it can replay full process executions using a modified version of QEMU, and find procedures that convert high entropy data (i.e. encrypted or compressed data) to lower entropy data. Coincidentally, if you get this up and running you can also automate the breaking of (encryption-based) DRM; that's just a side effect of gaining fuller control over your general-purpose computer. Oops.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  I think there's a significant idea hidden in your question. Seeing your username I hope that was intentional. Well, it probably wasn't as well thought out as you might have hoped, but there's no question there's at least thin connection between my username and most of my positions on things. The comment I made above was kind of just spur of the moment, off the cuff, to be honest. I have a fundamental and visceral disdain for government, and especially anything that hints at that Big Brother / Orwell-esque world of Nineteen Eighty Four. And it especially pains me to see technologists/hackers willfully taking part in supporting government oppression of free people. So of course I'm going to make an offhanded comment about how we should do the exact opposite. And I feel a little snarky now, because people are always referring to Peter Thiel as a "libertarian" and this strikes me as extremely un-libertarian. And as a libertarian myself, I don't want Thiel misleading a lot of people about how libertarian ideals. You could then use this to make sure you're not sending out data you don't want to send out in the first place; ideally you'd get to the point where your analysis tool can decrypt every packet, so that you're sure you're not sending out any data that you don't want to get out. Sounds something like an inverse IDS. I know there are some tools out there now for monitoring outgoing traffic, but not sure if there's anything with that specific spin on it. You might be onto something there.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
SilasX 10y ago
Yes, it's called "people smuggling" or "coyotes". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyotaje
- mindcrime 10y ago
  I actually was thinking more about "avoiding the government" for immigrants who are already here, and over the long term, than the actual border crossing bit. But that was an interesting read nonetheless. Thanks for sharing.

234dd57d2c8db 10y ago

Maybe it's time for somebody to start a company aimed at helping tax cheats avoid the government. Or maybe it's time for illegal immigrants to follow the law, just like thousands of legal immigrants do? Maybe they can pay taxes for the social welfare resources they use, the free college, the free medical expenses. Do you know how frustrating it is for legal immigrants who worked hard to become legal and follow the law watch other illegal immigrants trample on the laws without regard? It's very frustrating.

nodesocket 10y ago
The angel-immigrant stigma is just as biased as the evil-immigrant stigma. You make great and valid points, but you're going to downvoted to death. I however gave you an upvote. Merry Christmas.
unmole 10y ago
US citizens don't have access to free college and healthcare but somehow illegal immigrants do?
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/12/u-california-rolls-out-25m-fund-illegal-immigrants/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/12/u-california... One example. Read up on it. This is a public school, funded with your tax dollars. Tax dollars that will be spent on people who break the law, throw it in your face, and then demand more free stuff.
unmole 10y ago
US citizens don't have access to free college and healthcare but somehow illegal immigrants do?
zdean 10y ago
In regards to paying taxes and social welfare resources, they actually contribute quite a bit: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/... And in a perverse turn of events, they probably help some social welfare programs (ie Social Security) because they can never receive those benefits.

mwilcox 10y ago

Palantir is hardly a startup

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Seriously... I dont know why I bothered clicking the title thinking it was a new company. Just the same datamining company that helps government agencies helping a government agency.
throwaway1216 10y ago
Of all the comments you could possibly post, ranging from concerns about the 1st or 4th amendments, to arguments in favor of what this article posits, "Palantir is hardly a startup" is what you take away from this article?
dang 10y ago
Ok, we put 'Palantir' in the title above.

hprotagonist 10y ago

>"They are not all accounted for, the lost Seeing Stones. We do not know who else may be watching!"

twblalock 10y ago

Thiel calls himself a libertarian, but his involvement with Palantir demonstrates that he is just as much a big-government statist as the people he criticizes.

mixedCase 10y ago
Libertarian doesn't equal open borders, as that's a broad political spectrum. Hell, even some anarcho-capitalists (like the late Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe) are against open borders.
- throwaw12ay 10y ago
  I think the point is like Musk, these people hardly refuse government subsidizes. You might argue they provide a service, they are not getting a handout, but it's still paid by the same taxes they want to get rid off at first place.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Libertarians are not universally against taxation or Government involvement at large, it's a pretty wide umbrella. Musk can also be seen as a libertarian but he does advocate for social programmes like UBI which have to be provided through taxation. Most libertarians I know are not universally against taxation, they are against double taxation and would prefer to tax corporation and consumption at higher rates rather than individual labor. Libertarianism is primarily about the role of the government within the life of an individual and about maximizing the agency an individual holds over their own life; It doesn't mean that an ideal libertarian society would have no taxes; If anything most libertarians would rather pay higher local taxes to offset lower national taxation because they have more agency in determining on what and how their money is being spent on. Libertarians don't want anarchy, they are fully aware that roads, schools, police, firefighters, EMT's the military and for most of them even hospitals and much more have to be publically funded, and the only way to do it is through taxation.
    - 10y ago

evanwolf 10y ago

This startup helps hackers track Peter Thiel's immoral startups.

nodesocket 10y ago
Wait I'm confused. Are you literally upset by this? Why is enforcing the law and following policies so everybody can make a successful transition to become a US citizen a bad thing? If your illegal, and most likely your not going to pay your fair share for the entitlements and services you and others use then I have zero respect for you.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Undocumented workers still pay tax. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Institute_on_Taxation_and_Economic_Policy_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... > The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."[25]
  - nodesocket 10y ago
    That can't be right. According to the Wall Street Journal [1] there is a total of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US as a whole. [1] - http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-holds-steady-at-11-million-1474394518 http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-...
    - cryptarch 10y ago
      Estimates range from 11 to 16 million illegal immigrants, though a few years ago the highest one was at 20 million.
      - 10y ago

mzw_mzw 10y ago

Engadget? Aren't they part of that revenge porn outfit that was sued into bankruptcy a little while back? In fact, I recall that Peter Thiel helped fund the lawsuit against them. Huh. What a coincidence.

nodesocket 10y ago
Thus this negative hit piece against him perhaps?
cholantesh 10y ago
Nope, Gawker's electronics blog is Gizmodo. Also Gawker is more of a gossip rag than a 'revenge porn outfit'...