5 ms·

Is the $150 permit fee a typo? Given that it's likely that in the event of an accident, Uber would already create a detailed incident review internally - why on

by eric_h 10y ago

Is the $150 permit fee a typo? Given that it's likely that in the event of an accident, Uber would already create a detailed incident review internally - why on earth wouldn't they spend $150 and agree to submitting accident reports? They most certainly caved to NYC's demands that regular Ubers be registered with a registered cab dispatcher, and I'm quite certain they can afford $150 with their current war chest.

onion2k 10y ago
Accident reports mean a tally of the number of accidents in the public record. If there's a lot that would stop people taking a self-driving Uber, which would ruin the company in the long term.
- eric_h 10y ago
  Okay, but aren't car accidents already generally a matter of public record? You're technically required to report accidents to the police when they happen, are you not? Edit: It just occurred to me that the requirements could mean that Uber would have to report on any accidents that have occurred to date, though I'm not sure that conflicts with my original point. I must be mistaken in my original assumption.
  - florean 10y ago
    > You're technically required to report accidents to the police when they happen, are you not? No, you are not. Unless there is an injury or death, you just exchange information and pay the other party or let insurance figure it out. "You must call the police or the CHP if the accident caused a death or injury." http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/AutoAccident.aspx#1 http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/AutoAccident.aspx#... In WA, you also have to report if there was over $1k in damage. But it is obviously easy to estimate it is under that while at the scene of the accident. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.52.030 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.52.030 Most states are the same. If there wasn't an injury and it isn't impeding traffic, the police don't care.
    - eric_h 10y ago
      I'd be surprised if an insurance company would determine fault without a police report. Fair enough on minimal accidents. As a very young driver (< 6 months experience - i was reading a paper map propped up on the steering wheel as I was waiting for a light/coasting to a stop; bad idea) many years ago I did have a very minimal accident (low speed bumper to bumper), with no visible damage, but I insisted we not involve the police/insurance and agreed I'd pay for everything. That cost me $800 bucks (which was more than a paycheck for me at the time, had to post date a check to her), because I think the lady I bumped into got had by a mechanic.
      - florean 10y ago
        > I'd be surprised if an insurance company would determine fault without a police report. You haven't had to deal with an insurance company. I've dealt with at least five claims personally. None had a police report. A couple were well over 2k. It would be very easy for a company with Uber's resources to avoid an official report outside a regulatory requirement. If they paid whatever it cost for any driverless accident that didn't involve an injury, there would be no insurance claims, let alone police reports.
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        I've had too many problems with other drivers and accidents where they lie, bend the truth, whatever. Dash cams in all of our cars, and I always call the police for every accident to get an accident report.
tyre 10y ago
They don't care about the fee; they don't want to report accidents. Reporting accidents is terrible PR for a self-driving car company. If they can hide away all their mistakes, that tells a better story for when they launch. The biggest obstacle for self-driving cars at launch will be customers afraid of giving over complete control. If there is a paper trail of all the times they screwed up, even if those bugs were fixed, then they have to account for that in everyone's mind. Similar to experienced politicians that can have prior votes held against them.
- eric_h 10y ago
  How can you hide accidents that occur on public, urban roads? Perhaps accidents with very minor damage, but wouldn't any significant accident already be reported, as the police would be involved?
  - tyre 10y ago
    Yes, but they would just be considered regular car accidents, not accidents registered on the company's "official log of self-driving car accidents".
    - eric_h 10y ago
      I see. So the difference is really just a more easily accessible list of accidents. I'm sure records of "regular accidents" would include descriptions of the car involved, and a determined person could FOIA the information about all accidents an Uber self driving car was involved in regardless, right?
      - sundaeofshock 10y ago
        FOIA? All the accident reports for autonomous vehicles are publicly accessible via the web. Not only that, but the companies are required to document each time the driver takes over. Again, all accessible via the web. The reporting requirements would have doomed Uber.
      - deleted 10y ago
dahdum 10y ago
Submitting accident reports is the issue, terrible press with each one and sympathetic juries if someone gets killed / injured.

by eric_h 10y ago

onion2k 10y ago

Accident reports mean a tally of the number of accidents in the public record. If there's a lot that would stop people taking a self-driving Uber, which would ruin the company in the long term.

eric_h 10y ago
Okay, but aren't car accidents already generally a matter of public record? You're technically required to report accidents to the police when they happen, are you not? Edit: It just occurred to me that the requirements could mean that Uber would have to report on any accidents that have occurred to date, though I'm not sure that conflicts with my original point. I must be mistaken in my original assumption.
- florean 10y ago
  > You're technically required to report accidents to the police when they happen, are you not? No, you are not. Unless there is an injury or death, you just exchange information and pay the other party or let insurance figure it out. "You must call the police or the CHP if the accident caused a death or injury." http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/AutoAccident.aspx#1 http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/AutoAccident.aspx#... In WA, you also have to report if there was over $1k in damage. But it is obviously easy to estimate it is under that while at the scene of the accident. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.52.030 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.52.030 Most states are the same. If there wasn't an injury and it isn't impeding traffic, the police don't care.
  - eric_h 10y ago
    I'd be surprised if an insurance company would determine fault without a police report. Fair enough on minimal accidents. As a very young driver (< 6 months experience - i was reading a paper map propped up on the steering wheel as I was waiting for a light/coasting to a stop; bad idea) many years ago I did have a very minimal accident (low speed bumper to bumper), with no visible damage, but I insisted we not involve the police/insurance and agreed I'd pay for everything. That cost me $800 bucks (which was more than a paycheck for me at the time, had to post date a check to her), because I think the lady I bumped into got had by a mechanic.
    - florean 10y ago
      > I'd be surprised if an insurance company would determine fault without a police report. You haven't had to deal with an insurance company. I've dealt with at least five claims personally. None had a police report. A couple were well over 2k. It would be very easy for a company with Uber's resources to avoid an official report outside a regulatory requirement. If they paid whatever it cost for any driverless accident that didn't involve an injury, there would be no insurance claims, let alone police reports.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        I've had too many problems with other drivers and accidents where they lie, bend the truth, whatever. Dash cams in all of our cars, and I always call the police for every accident to get an accident report.

tyre 10y ago

They don't care about the fee; they don't want to report accidents. Reporting accidents is terrible PR for a self-driving car company. If they can hide away all their mistakes, that tells a better story for when they launch. The biggest obstacle for self-driving cars at launch will be customers afraid of giving over complete control. If there is a paper trail of all the times they screwed up, even if those bugs were fixed, then they have to account for that in everyone's mind. Similar to experienced politicians that can have prior votes held against them.

eric_h 10y ago
How can you hide accidents that occur on public, urban roads? Perhaps accidents with very minor damage, but wouldn't any significant accident already be reported, as the police would be involved?
- tyre 10y ago
  Yes, but they would just be considered regular car accidents, not accidents registered on the company's "official log of self-driving car accidents".
  - eric_h 10y ago
    I see. So the difference is really just a more easily accessible list of accidents. I'm sure records of "regular accidents" would include descriptions of the car involved, and a determined person could FOIA the information about all accidents an Uber self driving car was involved in regardless, right?
    - sundaeofshock 10y ago
      FOIA? All the accident reports for autonomous vehicles are publicly accessible via the web. Not only that, but the companies are required to document each time the driver takes over. Again, all accessible via the web. The reporting requirements would have doomed Uber.
    - deleted 10y ago

dahdum 10y ago

Submitting accident reports is the issue, terrible press with each one and sympathetic juries if someone gets killed / injured.