10 ms·

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where peop

• winter_blue 10y ago
  You could get involved in local politics, and maybe eventually even run for governor. Is there anything stopping you?
  • bluejekyll 10y ago
    Exactly. If you want this stuff to change, stop waiting for others to do it, you can get involved and start changing things.
  • muninn_ 10y ago
    Yes. I have a high-paying job, a mortgage, and although I'm personable I don't see any starting point or path toward doing anything about it.
    • Frondo 10y ago
      Volunteer with your preferred local political party. The path to getting into politics can start as easily as showing up until people know you, and having good ideas that enough people agree with. Your job as a politician would be to carry those ideas to the structures of power (town council, school board, whatever). It's pretty time-consuming, but it's a big responsibility, making decisions that affect lots of people's lives. So, trade-offs.
      • zeroer 10y ago
        Another reason not to do so is that it's a high-risk, low-reward endeavor.
• arkitaip 10y ago
  We city apartment people aren't better at socializing with our neighbors, probably even worse. The stereotype that cities can be harsh and unfriendly is very much rooted in reality.
  • k-mcgrady 10y ago
    It very much depends on the city and even the specific part of the city. e.g. London, despite mostly being as you describe, has areas where there is a strong sense of community, even for new comers. Typically more working class areas.
  • JumpCrisscross 10y ago
    I have lived in my Manhattan building for only 2 years. Know most of the other residents, the owners of neighborhood restaurants, local politicians, et cetera. That said, I do not feel that expectation of social and civic engagement in San Francisco.
    • kovacs 10y ago
      Yup. I've lived in SF since 2000 and every time I go to NYC it's way easier to connect with people. It's either I'm different when I'm in NYC or it's SF. Or maybe a bit of both but your comment resonates very strongly with me.
  • ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    I've live on a cul-de-sac (back) in Extreme Flyover Country now for a whopping ... three months, and I met all the neighbors and chat with 'em often. People in stores are very open and will talk if spoken to.
    • brokenmasonjars 10y ago
      I find driving my car is much more efficient than taking trains allowing me to make multiple stops thus talking with numerous people through out the day.
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• scalesolved 10y ago
  I can imagine the sprawling suburbs would be really hard to live in, obvious benefits in lower cost housing and more green space but the isolation and need for a car seems pretty terrible. I live in Barcelona and the majority of people live in flats/apartments, my apartment building is like a large family, mixture of retirees, families, young couples and mixed flats of people just out of university. Everyone knows each other and relies on each other, for our neighbours' 90th birthday almost the whole building (10 flats) took her cake and stayed and chatted and had fun. (My partner and myself are both foreigners here and we're still accepted into the culture and events like this. IMO it's really hard to overstate how crucial this sort of interaction and sense of belonging is in a large city. What intensifies this even more is in Barcelona the first floor of a lot of apartment buildings is where there are shops/bars/butchers/restaurants etc. For most of my food and leisure needs (including the gym for example) I don't need to go more than 400m, this also creates social situations where you bump into the same people and staff over and over creating a real village feel. Here's a great shot of Eixample, a district in Barcelona divided by distinctive grids that lends itself to these 'micro' village communities. http://lh4.ggpht.com/-I28z_xwspR0/UdgqfgPxzCI/AAAAAAAAqCY/MjnI5scVE8k/eixample-barcelona8%25255B5%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 http://lh4.ggpht.com/-I28z_xwspR0/UdgqfgPxzCI/AAAAAAAAqCY/Mj... Sorry that was quite the tangent to go off on!
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  • visarga 10y ago
    I have often watched Barcelona's honeycomb structure in Google Maps. Didn't know it was home to a small-village-like atmosphere. That's an amazing thing.
• Tempest1981 10y ago
  I think it's cultural. I've lived in apartments and condos designed with nice common spaces (pool, clubhouse, lawn, chairs), and those areas were empty 95% of the time. At most, a couple of people swimming, or a guy taking a phone call. We work all day, come home at 8pm, watch TV while surfing with phone, update Facebook, text a friend, go to bed. Repeat.
  • prawn 10y ago
    I think some people don't like being visible in a public space that includes "others". Maybe a feeling of being judged and feeling self-conscious as a result? Go back 10,000 years and almost all people encountered would be people familiar to you. Any other instances would've been a potential stand-off. I'd guess it's a carry over from that.
  • 8note 10y ago
    the ones in my apartment really aren't compfy, and if you look closely, you quickly notice how much they cheaper out on everything
    • Tempest1981 10y ago
      We may have identified the root cause of Social Isolation: Cheap lawn furniture. :-)
• closeparen 10y ago
  This is an extremely poor argument. Try starting a conversation on a Manhattan subway. The lack of boxes between you and your fellow commuters does not make it remotely acceptable to interact with them, nor should it. It is much harder to meet friends who are separated by 5 miles of bus ride than 5 miles of freeway. It is much harder to actually hear each other at a crowded bar than someone's home, but only the very rich (or the suburban) can afford homes large enough to host gatherings. Economic circumstances may coerce interaction with roommates, but living with someone is more likely to destroy your friendship than strengthen it. I think this is a cultural/attitude thing, not really a manifestation of urban planning.
  • coderdude 10y ago
    > but living with someone is more likely to destroy your friendship than strengthen it. Never live with someone you aren't prepared to hate. Nothing kills a friendship like becoming roommates.
  • LeanderK 10y ago
    i speak with strangers in bars all the time, seriously. I thought it's one of the reasons bars exists. Even most tinder-dates start in bars, because if it's not going anywhere there other people to talk to. You just might not get laid.
    • nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Can confirm, I met my spouse in a bar. I also became good friends with a bartender who I met when she was serving me. She no longer bartends now that she's out of school but we still see each other all the time. A lot of my friends now usually prefer to meet out rather than have someone come over. It takes the pressure off to be a host.
    • tnecniv 10y ago
      I must be going to the wrong bars. Everyone I go regularly has people minding their own business.
• xabotage 10y ago
  I've seen this brought up many times before but I disagree completely that American cities' designs are the culprit. I enjoy visiting my family in their "suburban fortresses" out in the Midwest where you have to drive a car to get anywhere. I enjoy it because it gives me a chance to recover from the crippling social isolation that comes with living in a city with roommates, taking buses everywhere, walking around in crowds, and generally being surrounded by people who don't care about you. The way I see it, the level of community involvement and social interaction in general have almost nothing to do with infrastructure, unless you decide to go full-on hermit in the mountains. It matters what people are in your life, not just how many are in your proximity.
  • TheOneTrueKyle 10y ago
    I leave the house far more thanks to Uber. There are cool things happening, but it requires me to drive and I hate driving.
  • Swizec 10y ago
    > I enjoy visiting my family > surrounded by people who don't care about you That's the difference. Not city vs. suburban. Where are the people that care about you and that you care about? That's where you will feel less socially isolated. I'd bet that if you went to a suburbia that doesn't contain your family, you'd feel just as isolated as you do in the city.
    • xapata 10y ago
      Not necessarily family. Having some good old friends can serve as a seed to start connecting with other folks in the community.
  • visarga 10y ago
    > It matters what people are in your life, not just how many are in your proximity. It matters how many of the people you meet actually know you.
• FrancoDiaz 10y ago
  Terrible. I wish I could be governor or something and make sure that we stop this. It makes me sad. How would you stop this as governor? I have a feeling your solution would be far worse than the problem you're trying to solve.
  • ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Uuuuuuh... call out the National Guard? knock knock knock <opens door> "Huh?" "I'm Sergeant Jones with the 665th Airborne. Our records show you haven't been out all week. Come with us, sir... " It'd be different if he handed you a beer first, I guess.
  • muninn_ 10y ago
    I would build mixed-use development neighborhoods, and create spaces where people would be able to meet together for events, etc. I'd move highways that go straight through the downtown area and reroute them around the city. I'd make cities more walk/bike/subway/bus - able and work on smart regulation that would allow for mixed-use development so people could work-live-play in different areas. I'd also fix the schools. But that's a much larger discussion. This is my opinion.
    • FrancoDiaz 10y ago
      You seem to have many misunderstandings on the power that Governors have. Real life isn't Simcity.
      • muninn_ 10y ago
        I could change zoning laws and provide tax incentives. Those work pretty well.
        • FrancoDiaz 10y ago
          The vast majority of zoning laws are done at the local level. You'd actually be better off running for mayor of some city. It's much better to do what you're proposing at a local level anyway.
• yossarian 10y ago
  It's also the way American culture is: as a society of individuals with little obligation to their communities outside of work and family.
• 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  Why is poor Appalachia (mostly white) low-crime? They have violent crime rates on par with "affluent" communities. What about poor immigrant Asian communities? Low crime as well. There must be another explanation for the drug and violence problems you discuss, unrelated to education and wealth.
• codingdave 10y ago
  I know the whole stereotype of suburban isolation is popular, but I have never found it to be true. I have lived in cities, small towns, and in suburbia. I found suburban folk knew their neighbors the most. In the city, people ignore each other. In small towns, you know everyone, but almost too much so. But in the suburbs, we knew everyone within about 5 homes, and the kids would go out and play together, we'd have dinners together, see each other at the parks... it was a community. It was the stereotype of talking across the fence to your neighbor as you both did yard work. I'm not defending suburbia... I don't like it in general, and now have a small homestead in a small town, but my dislike of suburbia does NOT stem from social isolation.
  • senseless 10y ago
    Just the same, there are city neighborhoods where everyone down the block knows one another and whose families spend time together often, and suburban neighborhoods falling into crime and dysfunction where few community bonds exist. Neither of these is proof that one is inherently better than the other, just that there are many dependent factors which can change the fabric of a neighborhood in any setting. That's the point of the entire field of urban studies existing; to understand what makes these types of places happen. As you would expect, many of the communities that we have in reality don't implement the best solutions that have been discovered due to local resistance, funding issues, misguided political mandates, etc.
• maxsilver 10y ago
  > it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. That's not the highways fault in any way. Walkable neighborhoods are expensive, and most Americans are too poor to afford anything like that. You can't jump in early, because you'll just get gentrified out as soon as decent density & transit exist. You can't jump in after, because the costs are 3x to 50x higher. If your not wealthy, it's a loose-loose situation. That's why walkable neighborhoods can't maintain their "variety of incomes and backgrounds". If anyone could afford to put their family in walkable NYC / San Francisco / Seattle / etc, many more would choose to do it. But until high-quality safe family housing in walkable neighborhoods drops to $150k - $250k, it's just not going to happen. Suburbs don't happen because people love looking at asphalt. Suburbs can be made cheap, safe and affordable for regular middle-class people. Dense urban housing is almost never affordable, even in tiny little towns with no zoning or permitting in low-cost-of-living places like the Midwest. Until people honestly address the exploding high costs of density (and not just blame "red tape" or "design" or "subsidy" for it), that won't change and suburbs will continue to get built.