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Our society is simply misguided in conflating education with employment. It is good for society as a whole to be educated, to understand history and science and

Our society is simply misguided in conflating education with employment. It is good for society as a whole to be educated, to understand history and science and literature, let alone practical skills such as cooking, filing taxes, and applying for a mortgage. The problem is that we treat colleges as "skill mills," where we expect to go in, like raw materials into a machine, and emerge as an employable middle-class worker. Not all degrees or programs are suited for employment. Some colleges alleviate the problem somewhat by requiring paid co-ops as a part of a degree, but that is only one side of the problem. Time was that the employer would teach the job skills on the job. There was an expectation of trust and loyalty on both sides which agreed that as long as the employee stuck with the employer, the employer would train and protect the employee. This model has been successfully replicated time and time again across the world, from the guilds of the Middle Ages, to the salaryman culture of modern Japan. College isn't everything.

gravypod 10y ago
When employers stop treating degrees being a better worker then the public will change it's perception. Sadly neither of those will happen soon and I don't think universities will go out of this without a fight. I mean, who the hell has 200k to spend "for fun" at a liberal arts college?
- epalmer 10y ago
  You would be surprised at how many private liberal arts schools are north of $40,000 / year and how many people pay full pay. Even schools that are mid to low tier are charging a lot for a 4 year education. I suspect that many of the low tier and some mid tier schools will go out of business in the next 5 to ten years. Some schools have gone under already. Getting alumni to donate is getting harder for raising money and schools rely on not just the fees they charge but also donations[0]. This site will allow you to see private versus public schools and has estimates for fees and room and board (living expenses). Just page through a few pages and you will see that for private schools most schools add up to more than $30,000 / year and many more than $40,000. Many the schools you will not recognize their names. The cost of college is out-of-control. Some private schools many are "need based". What that means is that if your effective family contribution (FASFA Calculation [1]) is less than the estimated cost of attendance [2,3,4] then the school will provide financial aid for the difference. The financial aid may be in the form of tax credits, student debt, grants (like a scholarship), scholarships, exchange for student employment and more. Many aid packages are a mix. Schools that load up students with debt are doing a very bad service to the student, their families and society. 0: http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=MI&degree=Undergraduate&type=Private&level=4-year%20or%20High http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=M... 1: https://fafsa.ed.gov/ https://fafsa.ed.gov/ 2: http://www.olin.edu/admission/costs/cost-of-attendance/ http://www.olin.edu/admission/costs/cost-of-attendance/ 3: http://financialaid.richmond.edu/prospective/cost.html http://financialaid.richmond.edu/prospective/cost.html 4: https://www.elon.edu/e/admissions/undergraduate/financial-aid/index.html https://www.elon.edu/e/admissions/undergraduate/financial-ai...
epalmer 10y ago
I have this conversation frequently. And I am speaking about the USA since that is where I live. The sad fact is that most people need a job to live in the world. And increasingly jobs are more scarce for many majors and not paying as well at they did historically. Hence more children are living beyond college with their parents. And then we have the automation threat to jobs... I believe that there are many great life skills that are learned in college. Liberal Arts colleges think they have a lock on critical thinking skills and problem solving but I know a lot of people with technical degrees (chemistry, engineering,...) that have critical thinking and problem solving skills. I think knowing history is also useful and a good thing. But as a parent I first and foremost want my kids to be able to live financially independently. It takes getting a job to do so. I haven't been able to reconcile that successfully in my meager brain with getting a college education regardless of employment. Plus employee / employer trust is no longer a reality.

gravypod 10y ago

When employers stop treating degrees being a better worker then the public will change it's perception. Sadly neither of those will happen soon and I don't think universities will go out of this without a fight. I mean, who the hell has 200k to spend "for fun" at a liberal arts college?

epalmer 10y ago
You would be surprised at how many private liberal arts schools are north of $40,000 / year and how many people pay full pay. Even schools that are mid to low tier are charging a lot for a 4 year education. I suspect that many of the low tier and some mid tier schools will go out of business in the next 5 to ten years. Some schools have gone under already. Getting alumni to donate is getting harder for raising money and schools rely on not just the fees they charge but also donations[0]. This site will allow you to see private versus public schools and has estimates for fees and room and board (living expenses). Just page through a few pages and you will see that for private schools most schools add up to more than $30,000 / year and many more than $40,000. Many the schools you will not recognize their names. The cost of college is out-of-control. Some private schools many are "need based". What that means is that if your effective family contribution (FASFA Calculation [1]) is less than the estimated cost of attendance [2,3,4] then the school will provide financial aid for the difference. The financial aid may be in the form of tax credits, student debt, grants (like a scholarship), scholarships, exchange for student employment and more. Many aid packages are a mix. Schools that load up students with debt are doing a very bad service to the student, their families and society. 0: http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=MI&degree=Undergraduate&type=Private&level=4-year%20or%20High http://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=M... 1: https://fafsa.ed.gov/ https://fafsa.ed.gov/ 2: http://www.olin.edu/admission/costs/cost-of-attendance/ http://www.olin.edu/admission/costs/cost-of-attendance/ 3: http://financialaid.richmond.edu/prospective/cost.html http://financialaid.richmond.edu/prospective/cost.html 4: https://www.elon.edu/e/admissions/undergraduate/financial-aid/index.html https://www.elon.edu/e/admissions/undergraduate/financial-ai...

epalmer 10y ago

I have this conversation frequently. And I am speaking about the USA since that is where I live. The sad fact is that most people need a job to live in the world. And increasingly jobs are more scarce for many majors and not paying as well at they did historically. Hence more children are living beyond college with their parents. And then we have the automation threat to jobs... I believe that there are many great life skills that are learned in college. Liberal Arts colleges think they have a lock on critical thinking skills and problem solving but I know a lot of people with technical degrees (chemistry, engineering,...) that have critical thinking and problem solving skills. I think knowing history is also useful and a good thing. But as a parent I first and foremost want my kids to be able to live financially independently. It takes getting a job to do so. I haven't been able to reconcile that successfully in my meager brain with getting a college education regardless of employment. Plus employee / employer trust is no longer a reality.