3 ms·

Hey, thanks for the link; I didn't know it, believing I knew all SGML resources. (I'm the fool having actually implemented SGML -- no less -- in Javascript).

DonHopkins 10y ago
James Clark [1] has written some amazing stuff [2] [3]! The story behind the design [4] of Relax/NG [5] [6] is fascinating and triumphant (thanks to simplicity). That July 2001 interview is apparently from before he merged his work on TREX [7] with Makoto Murata's [8] work on RELAX [9], working together on the OASIS RELAX NG technical committee [10]. Wikipedia: Makoto Murata: RELAX and RELAX NG [9] Some people, including Murata and James Clark, had critical attitudes toward XML Schema. XML Schema is a modern XML schema language designed by W3C XML Schema Working Group. W3C intended XML Schema to supersede traditional DTD (Document Type Definition). XML Schema supports so many features that its specification is large and complex. Murata, James Clark and those who criticised XML Schema, pointed out the following: It is difficult to implement all features of XML Schema. It is difficult for engineers to read and write XML Schema definitions. It does not permit nondeterministic content models. Murata and collaborators designed another modern schema language, RELAX (Regular Language description for XML), more simple and mathematically consistent. They published RELAX specification in 2000. RELAX was approved as JIS and ISO/IEC standards. At roughly the same time, James Clark also designed another schema language, TREX (Tree Regular Expressions for XML). Murata and James Clark designed a new schema language RELAX NG based on TREX and RELAX Core. RELAX NG syntax is the expansion of TREX. RELAX NG was approved by OASIS in December 2001. RELAX NG was also approved as Part 2 of ISO/IEC 19757: Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer) [2] http://www.jclark.com/ http://www.jclark.com/ [3] http://www.jclark.com/xml/ http://www.jclark.com/xml/ [4] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/design.html http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/design.html [5] http://relaxng.org/ http://relaxng.org/ [6] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/ http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/ [7] http://www.thaiopensource.com/trex/ http://www.thaiopensource.com/trex/ [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata#RELAX_and_RELAX_NG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata#RELAX_and_RELAX_... [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata [10] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/relax-ng/ https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/relax-ng/
- tannhaeuser 10y ago
  Yes, I know and appreciate RNG and James Clark of course. However, for the web, like it or not, XML is a lost cause; yet the web is still the most important markup application by far. In my project I'm trying to re-establish SGML (the good parts) for broad and practical web applications. SGML gives you HTML-style tag omission and empty elements, custom Wiki syntaxes eg. markdown plus markdown customizations, and injection-free templating, all based on an ISO standard. I've just created a new SGML DTD with full coverage of W3C HTML5.1 [2]. As an outcome of this project, I also have been encouraged to push for a new SGML (ISO/IEC 8879) revision. [1]: http://sgmljs.net/blog.html http://sgmljs.net/blog.html [2]: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201611/msg00067.html http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201611/msg00067.html

DonHopkins 10y ago

James Clark [1] has written some amazing stuff [2] [3]! The story behind the design [4] of Relax/NG [5] [6] is fascinating and triumphant (thanks to simplicity). That July 2001 interview is apparently from before he merged his work on TREX [7] with Makoto Murata's [8] work on RELAX [9], working together on the OASIS RELAX NG technical committee [10]. Wikipedia: Makoto Murata: RELAX and RELAX NG [9] Some people, including Murata and James Clark, had critical attitudes toward XML Schema. XML Schema is a modern XML schema language designed by W3C XML Schema Working Group. W3C intended XML Schema to supersede traditional DTD (Document Type Definition). XML Schema supports so many features that its specification is large and complex. Murata, James Clark and those who criticised XML Schema, pointed out the following: It is difficult to implement all features of XML Schema. It is difficult for engineers to read and write XML Schema definitions. It does not permit nondeterministic content models. Murata and collaborators designed another modern schema language, RELAX (Regular Language description for XML), more simple and mathematically consistent. They published RELAX specification in 2000. RELAX was approved as JIS and ISO/IEC standards. At roughly the same time, James Clark also designed another schema language, TREX (Tree Regular Expressions for XML). Murata and James Clark designed a new schema language RELAX NG based on TREX and RELAX Core. RELAX NG syntax is the expansion of TREX. RELAX NG was approved by OASIS in December 2001. RELAX NG was also approved as Part 2 of ISO/IEC 19757: Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clark_(programmer) [2] http://www.jclark.com/ http://www.jclark.com/ [3] http://www.jclark.com/xml/ http://www.jclark.com/xml/ [4] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/design.html http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/design.html [5] http://relaxng.org/ http://relaxng.org/ [6] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/ http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/ [7] http://www.thaiopensource.com/trex/ http://www.thaiopensource.com/trex/ [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata#RELAX_and_RELAX_NG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata#RELAX_and_RELAX_... [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makoto_Murata [10] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/relax-ng/ https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/relax-ng/

tannhaeuser 10y ago
Yes, I know and appreciate RNG and James Clark of course. However, for the web, like it or not, XML is a lost cause; yet the web is still the most important markup application by far. In my project I'm trying to re-establish SGML (the good parts) for broad and practical web applications. SGML gives you HTML-style tag omission and empty elements, custom Wiki syntaxes eg. markdown plus markdown customizations, and injection-free templating, all based on an ISO standard. I've just created a new SGML DTD with full coverage of W3C HTML5.1 [2]. As an outcome of this project, I also have been encouraged to push for a new SGML (ISO/IEC 8879) revision. [1]: http://sgmljs.net/blog.html http://sgmljs.net/blog.html [2]: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201611/msg00067.html http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201611/msg00067.html