4 ms·

Why? The JVM is awesome. Or are you just trying to be an edgelord with that hot take?

by meddlepal 10y ago

highwind 10y ago
Maybe he means in browser Java Applets. But they are pretty much dead anyways.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  They aren't supported in Java 9.
  - m-p-3 10y ago
    Good. It was one thing we always disabled in our deployment of JRE. One less vulnerable entry point for those who needed it on their workstations.
  - Sindisil 10y ago
    Yes they are. They're deprecated, but not gone. Not that it much matters, since Chrome doesn't support the NPAPI plugin, and FireFox is expected to drop support early in the new year, leaving Applets an essentially IE only thing.
    - donretag 10y ago
      And in Java, anything deprecated is never really removed.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        Not paying attention to the JEPs? http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/277 http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/277 There was a session at Java ONE about a set of API that will be gone in Java 10 after this gets introduced in Java 9.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - snuxoll 10y ago
      Hopefully Java WebStart doesn't go anytime soon, I still rely on that for OOB management on my servers without needing to boot Windows and use IE + the .Net consoles.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        Java Webstart is the official way for applet alternatives, according to the Java blog.
gosukiwi 10y ago
The JVM is great, Java, not so much. At least we have Clojure, Scala, Groovy and Kotlin.
- vorg 10y ago
  Those languages complement Java on the JVM to varying degrees. Kotlin and Scala were built to progressively replace Java in a codebase. Clojure was built for the JVM as its first target architecture. Apache Groovy was originally to script Java code, e.g. tests and glue code. (Although Groovy was later repurposed as a Java replacement in Groovy 2, not many people use it for that.)
  - meddlepal 10y ago
    Agree with your assessment of Groovy. It made the JVM easy to use for simple scripting and served a really good purpose as glue language between big monolithic JVM software systems. I haven't used it for awhile now, but I used to work on a serious Groovy code base. It's out of it's league now. Once Kotlin's scripting story gets rolling it should eat the rest of Groovy's lunch.
elcct 10y ago
It is unnecessarily resource hungry.
- meddlepal 10y ago
  How so?
- DannyB2 10y ago
  There was an article the other day on HN about Golang compiler and work on its GC. (Garbage Collection) As the article goes on, it becomes clear that a modern GC managed system is no simple thing. As you start to add all the choices and tuning you end up re-inventing the JVM runtime. Any program of sufficient complexity eventually ends up having GC. Java may be too resource hungry for trivial programs. For large programs Java is an industrial strength runtime platform. Or I should say the JVM is. You don't have to use the Java language. You can use a number of languages that compile to JVM bytecode.

Why? The JVM is awesome. Or are you just trying to be an edgelord with that hot take?

highwind 10y ago

Maybe he means in browser Java Applets. But they are pretty much dead anyways.

pjmlp 10y ago
They aren't supported in Java 9.
- m-p-3 10y ago
  Good. It was one thing we always disabled in our deployment of JRE. One less vulnerable entry point for those who needed it on their workstations.
- Sindisil 10y ago
  Yes they are. They're deprecated, but not gone. Not that it much matters, since Chrome doesn't support the NPAPI plugin, and FireFox is expected to drop support early in the new year, leaving Applets an essentially IE only thing.
  - donretag 10y ago
    And in Java, anything deprecated is never really removed.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Not paying attention to the JEPs? http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/277 http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/277 There was a session at Java ONE about a set of API that will be gone in Java 10 after this gets introduced in Java 9.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    Hopefully Java WebStart doesn't go anytime soon, I still rely on that for OOB management on my servers without needing to boot Windows and use IE + the .Net consoles.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Java Webstart is the official way for applet alternatives, according to the Java blog.

gosukiwi 10y ago

The JVM is great, Java, not so much. At least we have Clojure, Scala, Groovy and Kotlin.

vorg 10y ago
Those languages complement Java on the JVM to varying degrees. Kotlin and Scala were built to progressively replace Java in a codebase. Clojure was built for the JVM as its first target architecture. Apache Groovy was originally to script Java code, e.g. tests and glue code. (Although Groovy was later repurposed as a Java replacement in Groovy 2, not many people use it for that.)
- meddlepal 10y ago
  Agree with your assessment of Groovy. It made the JVM easy to use for simple scripting and served a really good purpose as glue language between big monolithic JVM software systems. I haven't used it for awhile now, but I used to work on a serious Groovy code base. It's out of it's league now. Once Kotlin's scripting story gets rolling it should eat the rest of Groovy's lunch.

elcct 10y ago

It is unnecessarily resource hungry.

meddlepal 10y ago
How so?
DannyB2 10y ago
There was an article the other day on HN about Golang compiler and work on its GC. (Garbage Collection) As the article goes on, it becomes clear that a modern GC managed system is no simple thing. As you start to add all the choices and tuning you end up re-inventing the JVM runtime. Any program of sufficient complexity eventually ends up having GC. Java may be too resource hungry for trivial programs. For large programs Java is an industrial strength runtime platform. Or I should say the JVM is. You don't have to use the Java language. You can use a number of languages that compile to JVM bytecode.