5 ms·

> tell me which people you know, in which industries, have outright 'lost their jobs' due to some AI or machine? I have literally seen a room full of people th

by terryf 10y ago

> tell me which people you know, in which industries, have outright 'lost their jobs' due to some AI or machine? I have literally seen a room full of people that lost their jobs because of software I wrote (admittedly, not alone, but still). The software was almost ready by that point and it was quite a disturbing experience that still bothers me up to this day to be honest. It had nothing to do with AI and was quite a long time ago, but I still remember it very vividly.

cm2187 10y ago
Losing their job is a violent and unpleasant process but a sort of necessary one as a society. I have seen that first hand many times. It forces people to reconsider their career, move to another more promising industry, move to another city or another country. That's how the economy adapts to change and resources are allocated efficiently. What I have seen often too is bankers wealthy enough to be able to live on their savings for a long time, and therefore not willing to reconsider their career. And as a result staying unemployed for a long time before coming to the conclusion that they need to do something else. I'm not saying this is fun and that I wouldn't mind going through it myself but this is capitalist's creative destruction at work. Not something you should feel particularly bad about.
- grp 10y ago
  We have to feel bad because they lost their main (and I think only) source of income, not because they lost their jobs. Nobody has to be forced to reconsider his career (so his entire life..) when we just have to cut the link between work and salary that we learn at school.
- king_magic 10y ago
  Sorry, but have you ever really witnessed firsthand the difficulty of being forced "to reconsider one's career, move to another more promising industry, or move to another city or another country"? The economy might adapt to change, but people aren't able to nearly as well. You say "capitalist's creative destruction", but it's really "greed-driven devastation".
  - cm2187 10y ago
    But are you suggesting we should keep people employed doing manual tasks to spare them the unpleasant experience of reconsidering their career? Are you suggesting that industrialisation or automation is greed? You can reverse a lot of technological advance that way. And we see that in many socialist economies, where zombie-like industries have been subsided well after they should have disappeared (like mining in the North of France).
    - king_magic 10y ago
      I'm not really suggesting anything. I literally have no answers. But I do think we (humanity) do ourselves a massive disservice when we push for automation for the sole purpose of reducing costs/boosting profits. I also think that we need to remember it's real people being affected here. You say "spare them the unpleasant experience" - that's an almost comically insulting way to phrase it - it's really more like "spare them the emotionally traumatic and devastating experience of watching their future evaporate". You say "creative destruction", but you're really talking about lives being literally destroyed. And the key difference here is that (unlike previous time periods), there is no obvious future for these people who are losing their jobs to automation. You rail against bankers not being willing to reconsider their careers, but what about cashiers at fast food restaurants? What about truck drivers? Train engineers? Miners? etc... You say it's not something we should feel particularly bad about, but it absolutely is. I can't tell you how hard my eyes roll when I hear people talking in the almost kumbaya-esque way that I'm talking now, but we are all really in this together, and if we can't figure out a way to help people through the transition that is coming, well, what good are we as people? Speaking so clinically about people's lives being destroyed does no one any favors. That's really all my point is.

by terryf 10y ago

cm2187 10y ago

Losing their job is a violent and unpleasant process but a sort of necessary one as a society. I have seen that first hand many times. It forces people to reconsider their career, move to another more promising industry, move to another city or another country. That's how the economy adapts to change and resources are allocated efficiently. What I have seen often too is bankers wealthy enough to be able to live on their savings for a long time, and therefore not willing to reconsider their career. And as a result staying unemployed for a long time before coming to the conclusion that they need to do something else. I'm not saying this is fun and that I wouldn't mind going through it myself but this is capitalist's creative destruction at work. Not something you should feel particularly bad about.

grp 10y ago
We have to feel bad because they lost their main (and I think only) source of income, not because they lost their jobs. Nobody has to be forced to reconsider his career (so his entire life..) when we just have to cut the link between work and salary that we learn at school.
king_magic 10y ago
Sorry, but have you ever really witnessed firsthand the difficulty of being forced "to reconsider one's career, move to another more promising industry, or move to another city or another country"? The economy might adapt to change, but people aren't able to nearly as well. You say "capitalist's creative destruction", but it's really "greed-driven devastation".
- cm2187 10y ago
  But are you suggesting we should keep people employed doing manual tasks to spare them the unpleasant experience of reconsidering their career? Are you suggesting that industrialisation or automation is greed? You can reverse a lot of technological advance that way. And we see that in many socialist economies, where zombie-like industries have been subsided well after they should have disappeared (like mining in the North of France).
  - king_magic 10y ago
    I'm not really suggesting anything. I literally have no answers. But I do think we (humanity) do ourselves a massive disservice when we push for automation for the sole purpose of reducing costs/boosting profits. I also think that we need to remember it's real people being affected here. You say "spare them the unpleasant experience" - that's an almost comically insulting way to phrase it - it's really more like "spare them the emotionally traumatic and devastating experience of watching their future evaporate". You say "creative destruction", but you're really talking about lives being literally destroyed. And the key difference here is that (unlike previous time periods), there is no obvious future for these people who are losing their jobs to automation. You rail against bankers not being willing to reconsider their careers, but what about cashiers at fast food restaurants? What about truck drivers? Train engineers? Miners? etc... You say it's not something we should feel particularly bad about, but it absolutely is. I can't tell you how hard my eyes roll when I hear people talking in the almost kumbaya-esque way that I'm talking now, but we are all really in this together, and if we can't figure out a way to help people through the transition that is coming, well, what good are we as people? Speaking so clinically about people's lives being destroyed does no one any favors. That's really all my point is.