5 ms·

Nice to read this among all the xenophobic nonsense. A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that the

by anondon 10y ago

Nice to read this among all the xenophobic nonsense. A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that they take away jobs, that they don't integrate well into society and they are out to convert everyone to Islam or something like that. I don't know what makes believe these crazy ideas, but the media certainly doesn't help, painting every terrorist attack as something to do with immigration policy or muslims. Social media plays a major role in spreading all these wrong stories. Unfortunately the vast majority of internet users get their news from social media platforms, where emotional appeal of a story trumps facts, which is something fake news writers have exploited to great success. I have no idea how people can support policies which actively want to stop helping immigrants. It's a humanitarian crisis and we need to do everything to help people who are suffering. As simple as that.

meowface 10y ago
I think part of it is the supposed belief statistics of certain regions. Like, 93% of some region may believe homosexuals should be executed and 70% that women should not be allowed to leave the house without a man, etc. (I'm making those numbers up, but I don't think they're far off from real areas of the world.) This really conflicts with the social norms in other countries. Some interesting statistics can be found here, though the video is pretty one-sided: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk (From a real Muslim woman, not just a concern troll.) Of course this doesn't mean immigrants should not be accepted with humanitarian rights and love like anyone else.
- kevcampb 10y ago
  Citation needed
  - entropica 10y ago
    You people need to learn how to work a damn search engine. At this point, there are many widely read sources for this information and it's largely an accepted fact among those who aren't actively denying it. This is like some genius coming along and saying "citation needed" every time someone remarks "the middle class is shrinking".
    - kevcampb 10y ago
      The reason i wrote citation needed was that it was clearly wrong. It's likely based on this pew research survey from 2013[0]. At no point does it suggest homosexuals should be executed. Note that the US also polled with 33% recipients disagreeing with "should society accept homosexuality". [0] http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-hom...
      - obdon 10y ago
        Had you considered that maybe that's not the only research ever done on the topic? In fact, it isn't, and there are other polls and studies looking into opinions on topics such as execution of homosexuals. Again, a single search engine query could solve this mystery for you.
mistermann 10y ago
"Nice to read this among all the xenophobic nonsense. A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that they take away jobs, that they don't integrate well into society and they are out to convert everyone to Islam or something like that." I don't care for parts of that comment. There are a lot of people in Canada that need help, and the notion that many people hold that you should help your countrymen before others, while somewhat heartless, absolutely is not "crazy" or necessarily xenophobic. > the vast majority of internet users get their news from social media platforms, where emotional appeal of a story trumps facts, which is something fake news writers have exploited to great success Indeed. By the way, I thought this was a great, heartwarming, inspirational story and would like to see more like it, but saying anyone who disagrees with this approach is necessarily a racist or xenophobe, is incorrect.
- meowface 10y ago
  >the notion that many people hold that you should help your countrymen before others, while somewhat heartless, absolutely is not "crazy" or necessarily xenophobic. No, it's not crazy or xenophobic. But it's interesting, because from a philosophical standpoint: what difference does it make? Why should you really help someone who lives down the street from you over someone 10 miles away? Why someone 30 miles away over someone 300 miles away? Because circumstance led you to randomly live near them? Of course, the real answer is that it's hard to take in more people without externalities (like more splitting of funding, etc.). But the notion of helping your countrymen before non-countrymen on principle seems foolish and insular to me. People have feelings and desires whether they're born in the US or Canada or Iraq.
  - victorhooi 10y ago
    Ironically, I think your claim that: > helping your countrymen before non-countrymen on principle seems foolish and insular to me is a bit insular =). If you travel a bit around the world, having pride in your country, or camaraderie with your countrymen isn't that unusual a viewpoint. In fact, your view-point is a bit unusual (although that doesn't necessarily make it wrong). Many people will put their own country/tribe/family before strangers. I'm probably the other side of the coin to you. To me, the next step is treating your country as nothing more than a business-transaction - I pay taxes, you give me services. I don't like that viewpoint. Having a sense of civic pride - in a shared culture of history with those around you - can lead to many selfless things, and binds people together. Of course, taken too far, you get jingoism - but to my mind, there is a happy middle-ground.
entropica 10y ago
People have pointed out other problems with your comment, but I feel the need to clarify that resistance to integration/assimilation is very real in terms of lifestyle, communities, and ideology. Many of these people retain dangerously Islamist ideas, even if they were born in the West. There has been a lot of research on this, and a U.K. government report addressed the problem in the past few weeks.
- aembleton 10y ago
  That'll be the Casey Review https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-casey-review-a-review-into-opportunity-and-integration https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-casey-review-...
snoman 10y ago
> A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that they take away jobs... To be fair, he did give a good deal of jobs to these people at his warehouse. Jobs that would have otherwise gone to locals. I know this, because I used to have one of those jobs and still have a number of friends that work there. Whether or not those jobs deserved to be for someone local or not, I can't say, but it's disingenuous to label people xenophobes for having legitimate concerns about how they, and their community, will continue to provide for their loved ones as jobs/livelihoods are given away to people from outside their communities (especially in a region that was hit pretty hard by the auto-industry issues of recent years).
sumedh 10y ago
> they don't integrate well into society , I don't know what makes believe these crazy ideas Probably because there is some truth in there. If you have any Muslim friend just ask them if they believe in freedom of speech and expression, few will say yes then ask them, should making fun of Mohammad be allowed, they will say no.
- akbar501 10y ago
  There is simply no factual basis for this comment. Every American Muslim I have met believes in the 1st Amendment. Perhaps more than many Americans, American Muslims are acutely aware of how our laws keep them safe. Reducing these laws would make them more of a target then they already are.
  - sumedh 10y ago
    > Every American Muslim I have met believes in the 1st Amendment. Did you also ask them my follow up question, if making fun of Mohammad is allowed. I guarantee you almost all of them will say no.
    - msie 10y ago
      The same goes for anyone. There will be something they don't believe should be made fun of. Eg. For the right, you can't burn the flag. For the left, you can't make comments about race. I'm crudely speaking here but there are examples.
      - sumedh 10y ago
        I agree the same goes for everyone but how many of them become violent.
kbart 10y ago
Let me guess: you live somewhere in USA, that took basically 0 refugees (compared to population) and have never been in ghettos that are direct results of this crisis? Sure, they are human beings and they need help, but it's not that simple and it's a trade-off between well-being of local population vs helping others, so finding a balance is hard and not straightforward as "accepting everyone".
mamon 10y ago
"They take away jobs" - are you kidding me? That's one of the most pressing issues with them, they rarely want to work (and usually are not qualified for all but the simplest, lowest paying jobs anyway). They come to Europe for benefits - one of the most common questions asked by "refugees" entering Germany is "When will I get my house and car?"[1] . About integrating well into society it is well known that Muslims tend to create their own enclaves, whole districts where non-Muslims are afraid to enter, and where unofficial "Shariah police" can beat the crap out of you for buying alcohol, or pork meat. Brussel's Molenbeek is one such example. [1] http://www.infowars.com/entitled-illegals-when-will-i-get-my-house-and-car/ http://www.infowars.com/entitled-illegals-when-will-i-get-my...

by anondon 10y ago

meowface 10y ago

I think part of it is the supposed belief statistics of certain regions. Like, 93% of some region may believe homosexuals should be executed and 70% that women should not be allowed to leave the house without a man, etc. (I'm making those numbers up, but I don't think they're far off from real areas of the world.) This really conflicts with the social norms in other countries. Some interesting statistics can be found here, though the video is pretty one-sided: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk (From a real Muslim woman, not just a concern troll.) Of course this doesn't mean immigrants should not be accepted with humanitarian rights and love like anyone else.

kevcampb 10y ago
Citation needed
- entropica 10y ago
  You people need to learn how to work a damn search engine. At this point, there are many widely read sources for this information and it's largely an accepted fact among those who aren't actively denying it. This is like some genius coming along and saying "citation needed" every time someone remarks "the middle class is shrinking".
  - kevcampb 10y ago
    The reason i wrote citation needed was that it was clearly wrong. It's likely based on this pew research survey from 2013[0]. At no point does it suggest homosexuals should be executed. Note that the US also polled with 33% recipients disagreeing with "should society accept homosexuality". [0] http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-hom...
    - obdon 10y ago
      Had you considered that maybe that's not the only research ever done on the topic? In fact, it isn't, and there are other polls and studies looking into opinions on topics such as execution of homosexuals. Again, a single search engine query could solve this mystery for you.

mistermann 10y ago

"Nice to read this among all the xenophobic nonsense. A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that they take away jobs, that they don't integrate well into society and they are out to convert everyone to Islam or something like that." I don't care for parts of that comment. There are a lot of people in Canada that need help, and the notion that many people hold that you should help your countrymen before others, while somewhat heartless, absolutely is not "crazy" or necessarily xenophobic. > the vast majority of internet users get their news from social media platforms, where emotional appeal of a story trumps facts, which is something fake news writers have exploited to great success Indeed. By the way, I thought this was a great, heartwarming, inspirational story and would like to see more like it, but saying anyone who disagrees with this approach is necessarily a racist or xenophobe, is incorrect.

meowface 10y ago
>the notion that many people hold that you should help your countrymen before others, while somewhat heartless, absolutely is not "crazy" or necessarily xenophobic. No, it's not crazy or xenophobic. But it's interesting, because from a philosophical standpoint: what difference does it make? Why should you really help someone who lives down the street from you over someone 10 miles away? Why someone 30 miles away over someone 300 miles away? Because circumstance led you to randomly live near them? Of course, the real answer is that it's hard to take in more people without externalities (like more splitting of funding, etc.). But the notion of helping your countrymen before non-countrymen on principle seems foolish and insular to me. People have feelings and desires whether they're born in the US or Canada or Iraq.
- victorhooi 10y ago
  Ironically, I think your claim that: > helping your countrymen before non-countrymen on principle seems foolish and insular to me is a bit insular =). If you travel a bit around the world, having pride in your country, or camaraderie with your countrymen isn't that unusual a viewpoint. In fact, your view-point is a bit unusual (although that doesn't necessarily make it wrong). Many people will put their own country/tribe/family before strangers. I'm probably the other side of the coin to you. To me, the next step is treating your country as nothing more than a business-transaction - I pay taxes, you give me services. I don't like that viewpoint. Having a sense of civic pride - in a shared culture of history with those around you - can lead to many selfless things, and binds people together. Of course, taken too far, you get jingoism - but to my mind, there is a happy middle-ground.

entropica 10y ago

People have pointed out other problems with your comment, but I feel the need to clarify that resistance to integration/assimilation is very real in terms of lifestyle, communities, and ideology. Many of these people retain dangerously Islamist ideas, even if they were born in the West. There has been a lot of research on this, and a U.K. government report addressed the problem in the past few weeks.

aembleton 10y ago
That'll be the Casey Review https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-casey-review-a-review-into-opportunity-and-integration https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-casey-review-...

snoman 10y ago

> A lot of people have this notion that welcoming (muslim) immigrants is like asking for terrorism, that they take away jobs... To be fair, he did give a good deal of jobs to these people at his warehouse. Jobs that would have otherwise gone to locals. I know this, because I used to have one of those jobs and still have a number of friends that work there. Whether or not those jobs deserved to be for someone local or not, I can't say, but it's disingenuous to label people xenophobes for having legitimate concerns about how they, and their community, will continue to provide for their loved ones as jobs/livelihoods are given away to people from outside their communities (especially in a region that was hit pretty hard by the auto-industry issues of recent years).

sumedh 10y ago

> they don't integrate well into society , I don't know what makes believe these crazy ideas Probably because there is some truth in there. If you have any Muslim friend just ask them if they believe in freedom of speech and expression, few will say yes then ask them, should making fun of Mohammad be allowed, they will say no.

akbar501 10y ago
There is simply no factual basis for this comment. Every American Muslim I have met believes in the 1st Amendment. Perhaps more than many Americans, American Muslims are acutely aware of how our laws keep them safe. Reducing these laws would make them more of a target then they already are.
- sumedh 10y ago
  > Every American Muslim I have met believes in the 1st Amendment. Did you also ask them my follow up question, if making fun of Mohammad is allowed. I guarantee you almost all of them will say no.
  - msie 10y ago
    The same goes for anyone. There will be something they don't believe should be made fun of. Eg. For the right, you can't burn the flag. For the left, you can't make comments about race. I'm crudely speaking here but there are examples.
    - sumedh 10y ago
      I agree the same goes for everyone but how many of them become violent.

kbart 10y ago

Let me guess: you live somewhere in USA, that took basically 0 refugees (compared to population) and have never been in ghettos that are direct results of this crisis? Sure, they are human beings and they need help, but it's not that simple and it's a trade-off between well-being of local population vs helping others, so finding a balance is hard and not straightforward as "accepting everyone".

mamon 10y ago

"They take away jobs" - are you kidding me? That's one of the most pressing issues with them, they rarely want to work (and usually are not qualified for all but the simplest, lowest paying jobs anyway). They come to Europe for benefits - one of the most common questions asked by "refugees" entering Germany is "When will I get my house and car?"[1] . About integrating well into society it is well known that Muslims tend to create their own enclaves, whole districts where non-Muslims are afraid to enter, and where unofficial "Shariah police" can beat the crap out of you for buying alcohol, or pork meat. Brussel's Molenbeek is one such example. [1] http://www.infowars.com/entitled-illegals-when-will-i-get-my-house-and-car/ http://www.infowars.com/entitled-illegals-when-will-i-get-my...