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I don't know if you consider this an effective rebuttal but I live in a place (Ontario, Canada) that made the opposite move at the same time as Germany. All coa

by aianus 10y ago

I don't know if you consider this an effective rebuttal but I live in a place (Ontario, Canada) that made the opposite move at the same time as Germany. All coal plants have been shut down and replaced with additional Nuclear, Hydro, and Natural Gas generation. We now have some of the cheapest electricity in the world (~$0.055 per kwh residential off peak vs. something crazy like $0.30 in Berlin) and haven't had a single smog day in Toronto for nearly two years.

tehabe 10y ago
The actual electricity is getting cheaper in Germany, what drives the prices are the grid usage costs and other elements. One thing which drives me nuts is a cost sharing scheme for renewable energy. Actually a good idea but it has a flaw. Renewable energy actually decrease the price on the electricity exchange. So if more renewable energy is supplied the prices decreases even more. And the cost sharing scheme says, that the grid owners get the difference between the exchange price and the the fixed tariff for renewable energy. The result is: this part of the electricity price increases. It is a flaw in the way the electricity market is designed and it should be fixed. But currently the political is missing to do so.
grzm 10y ago
It wasn't intended as a rebuttal. I'd rather not see increased CO₂ emissions as a result of electricity production. I was, however, pushing back a little at "It boggles the mind", which in this context carries with it snarky connotations of condescension, which does nothing to solve the problem, and doesn't admit to even the possibility of understanding the situation. As I mentioned in my initial comment, there are reasons why this decision was made, and the first step in changing the situation is understanding why it came about. And changing the situation is the goal, isn't it? What caused your locale to make this decision while Germany made another? Edit to add: Please note I'm not saying or even implying you don't know why Germany made the decision to build more coal plants. I don't know the situations in Germany or Ontario. I just think it's more constructive to discuss the situation than dismissing it as startling, confusing, or overwhelming.
brandon272 10y ago
I see Ontario in the news frequently due to high and rising power costs. [1] What am I missing? 1. ‪http://www.cbc.ca/1.3860314‬ http://www.cbc.ca/1.3860314‬
- grzm 10y ago
  I think that link may be session-based. I see "Sorry, we can't find the page you requested."
- aianus 10y ago
  They've been going up fast recently... to $0.065 per kwh now, still 4x cheaper than Berlin.
douche 10y ago
Canada does have the advantage of having huge, almost depopulated areas with rivers suitable for hydro power. HydroQuebec can build dams pretty much where ever they feel like in the northern part of the province, with little of the collateral damage that similar projects would have in most of the US or in Europe.
- aianus 10y ago
  Yet hydro is only 23% of Ontario generation vs 36% nuclear.

by aianus 10y ago

tehabe 10y ago

The actual electricity is getting cheaper in Germany, what drives the prices are the grid usage costs and other elements. One thing which drives me nuts is a cost sharing scheme for renewable energy. Actually a good idea but it has a flaw. Renewable energy actually decrease the price on the electricity exchange. So if more renewable energy is supplied the prices decreases even more. And the cost sharing scheme says, that the grid owners get the difference between the exchange price and the the fixed tariff for renewable energy. The result is: this part of the electricity price increases. It is a flaw in the way the electricity market is designed and it should be fixed. But currently the political is missing to do so.

grzm 10y ago

It wasn't intended as a rebuttal. I'd rather not see increased CO₂ emissions as a result of electricity production. I was, however, pushing back a little at "It boggles the mind", which in this context carries with it snarky connotations of condescension, which does nothing to solve the problem, and doesn't admit to even the possibility of understanding the situation. As I mentioned in my initial comment, there are reasons why this decision was made, and the first step in changing the situation is understanding why it came about. And changing the situation is the goal, isn't it? What caused your locale to make this decision while Germany made another? Edit to add: Please note I'm not saying or even implying you don't know why Germany made the decision to build more coal plants. I don't know the situations in Germany or Ontario. I just think it's more constructive to discuss the situation than dismissing it as startling, confusing, or overwhelming.

brandon272 10y ago

I see Ontario in the news frequently due to high and rising power costs. [1] What am I missing? 1. ‪http://www.cbc.ca/1.3860314‬ http://www.cbc.ca/1.3860314‬

grzm 10y ago
I think that link may be session-based. I see "Sorry, we can't find the page you requested."
aianus 10y ago
They've been going up fast recently... to $0.065 per kwh now, still 4x cheaper than Berlin.

douche 10y ago

Canada does have the advantage of having huge, almost depopulated areas with rivers suitable for hydro power. HydroQuebec can build dams pretty much where ever they feel like in the northern part of the province, with little of the collateral damage that similar projects would have in most of the US or in Europe.

aianus 10y ago
Yet hydro is only 23% of Ontario generation vs 36% nuclear.