6 ms·

Time Machine: H.L. Mencken's 1925 Review of 'The Great Gatsby'

76 points by samclemens 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
UncleSlacky 10y ago
The recent Family Guy spoof nailed its weaknesses pretty well, I thought.
zwieback 10y ago
The last three paragraphs are interesting if you think of Trump as a descendant of Gatsby's NY.
fmariluis 10y ago
A fine piece of writing: "The thing that chiefly interests the basic Fitzgerald is still the florid show of modern American life — and especially the devil's dance that goes on at the top. He is unconcerned about the sweatings and sufferings of the nether herd; what engrosses him is the high carnival of those who have too much money to spend, and too much time for the spending of it. Their idiotic pursuit of sensation, their almost incredible stupidity and triviality, their glittering swinishness — these are the things that go into his notebook."
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
newswriter99 10y ago
It's surprising how much Gatsby has in common with Dandy characters like Dorian Gray. Never noticed until Mencken's review.
- Grazester 10y ago
  Two books I loved when I read them in my early to mid twenties. I fell in love with their main characters and the decadence.
abakker 10y ago
If you've not read his piece on Chiropractic, it is worth it. https://www.chirobase.org/12Hx/mencken.html https://www.chirobase.org/12Hx/mencken.html
- abecedarius 10y ago
  Most of that piece is contemptuous rhetoric, like "the simple sentimentality of a somewhat sclerotic fat woman" from the OP but without the more interesting analysis. It takes the worth of doctors of his time for granted, mentioning tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy: at least the former was much overprescribed then, I don't know about the latter. A chiropractor won't offer to remove any organs you're not sure of the use of. (I've never seen one myself.) I do like older manipulative writing for being more obvious to us, because we're not quite the target anymore. A kind of vaccine.
cafard 10y ago
I'd be curious to know how this was transcribed: it has "Totentons" evidently for "Totentanz". I seem to reread the book every n years, and often as not change my mind from the previous reading.
- mci 10y ago
  > it has "Totentons" evidently for "Totentanz". Same goes for "fidelis ad urnum", which should read "urnam".
  - B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
    And probably gaudy in "gandy villas and bawdy house parties".
    - washadjeffmad 10y ago
      I imagine if not originally dictated, his draft was hand written and submitted directly for typesetting. While possibly Mencken's errors, a linotype operator botching a slug or an editor misreading a partially open 'a' wouldn't be the severe error it is today in the age of autocorrect and instantaneous type production. When you post a comment, there's just a screen between you and all of the internet and its information. Mencken might have had weeks or months and a dozen people's hands between his review and its printing. Not to mention reprintings, revisions, and the eventual OCR close to a century later.
empath75 10y ago
I don't think I'd describe Gatsby as a 'glorified anecdote'. It's fairly tightly plotted, as much as any hollywood blockbuster. But the writing does far outshine the story. It's absolutely beautiful, if perhaps a bit mawkish.
dsr_ 10y ago
Mencken describes Fitzgerald's increasing skill as a writer as a rare thing. I would argue that among really good writers, it's not rare at all. The usual course is for an author to keep learning for years, figure out what works well for them, and perhaps lose a little ground towards the end of their lives due to failing health or lack of care. Similarly, good technologists build a workshop full of techniques that experience has given them, do their highest quality work in middle to late middle age, and then retreat from active building to teach, critique or advise.
- ameister14 10y ago
  >The usual course is for an author to keep learning for years, figure out what works well for them, and perhaps lose a little ground towards the end of their lives due to failing health or lack of care. I haven't found that to be true, at least amongst successful authors. Certainly not enough to call it 'the usual course.' Most authors who I have seen be successful in early life don't write their best works in middle or late age.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    I think one of the problems which may make it appear that this is the case, whether or not it actually is, is that once an author has achieved some success, they are granted increasing deference by editors and publishers; this may lead to the quality of their finished work declining even while their writing skill increases.
    - chc 10y ago
      That's true, but we see the same phenomenon in a lot of fields where that isn't as true — such as bands' later albums — so it seems likely to me that there's something deeper at work a lot of the time. I suspect it's some combination of that and: - They had a reserve of good ideas and used them up faster than they could generate new ones - Their initial efforts had a lot of time to "cook" in their heads, while the later ones were forced out (similar to what you propose, only it's their internal editor that's slacking off) - They lose their enthusiasm for the profession, but they don't want to give up the success and identity they've built in the field
kapitza 10y ago
> To find a parallel for the grossness and debauchery that now reign in New York one must go back to the Constantinople of Basil I. H.L., honey, you have no idea...
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
  Between Mencken's day and today, there was a book titled Hollywood Babylon, with the expectable content. We're probably into solid Paleolithic territory by now ...
nxrabl 10y ago
"The trouble with H.L. Mencken is that he believes he is H.L. Mencken. There is no cure for a delusion of that magnitude." ... is a quote I distinctly remember reading many years ago, and which I cannot find a single reference to anywhere on the internet. Guess I'm just crazy?
- GavinMcG 10y ago
  If that's the extent of your craziness, you're doing pretty well: http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/movie-doesn-t-exist-and-redditors-who-think-it-does http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/mo...
- chc 10y ago
  It's probably a real but non-famous quote that just didn't happen to be recorded on an extant website. That's the sort of thing that's easy to lose to time.
rando444 10y ago
Regardless of the subject matter and opinions expressed, I think any reviewer who decides to give away all of the plot details within the first few sentences of a review should not be given much (if any) merit.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  That's an interesting perspective. I guess there's a philosophical question: what is the point of reviews? If it is to help determine whether to read or see something, then I guess I agree with you that this sort of thing largely defeats the purpose. But if it is instead to have a sort of "conversation" with the reviewer about their thoughts on something you've already read or seen, then this sort of recap is less problematic. I think I use reviews for both purposes. Using movies as an example, I'll check rottentomatoes before-the-fact to see whether there is at least a vague consensus that the movie I'm about to pay to see isn't going to be a total waste of my time. But then after I've seen it, I'll sometimes also go read what a smaller set of reviewers who I enjoy had to say about it, and compare and contrast their thoughts with my own. Both things have value to me, but in very different ways.
  - bjterry 10y ago
    It's unfortunate that there aren't separate widely-used terms for recommendation style reviews and critical breakdown style reviews, because it makes it hard to find the latter when I want it. For an example, Jamahl Epsicokhan has written reviews of all the episodes of Star Trek on his site Jammer's Reviews. They break down both the plot and give criticism of the entire work, including parts that would be spoilers. Sometimes you can find these kind of articles under the term "rewatch" though.
- hbosch 10y ago
  I could tell you exactly what you'll see when you go to Big Sur, but that still would not spoil your trip should you drive down there yourself. You cannot spoil The Great Gatsby just by recalling the major plot points. Indeed, the novel's beauty is actually in between the parties and deaths of it's characters.
jszymborski 10y ago
For those with adblockers: https://archive.fo/eazBq https://archive.fo/eazBq
pmoriarty 10y ago
Also see Mark Twain's "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences"[1], reviewing some of the works of James Fenimore Cooper (of "The Last of the Mohicans" fame). A sample: In his little box of stage properties he kept six or eight cunning devices, tricks, artifices for his savages and woodsmen to deceive and circumvent each other with, and he was never so happy as when he was working these innocent things and seeing them go. A favorite one was to make a moccasined person tread in the tracks of the moccasined enemy, and thus hide his own trail. Cooper wore out barrels and barrels of moccasins in working that trick. Another stage-property that he pulled out of his box pretty frequently was his broken twig. He prized his broken twig above all the rest of his effects, and worked it the hardest. It is a restful chapter in any book of his when somebody doesn’t step on a dry twig and alarm all the reds and whites for two hundred yards around. Every time a Cooper person is in peril, and absolute silence is worth four dollars a minute, he is sure to step on a dry twig. There may be a hundred handier things to step on, but that wouldn’t satisfy Cooper. Cooper requires him to turn out and find a dry twig; and if he can’t do it, go and borrow one. In fact, the Leather Stocking Series ought to have been called the Broken Twig Series. [1] - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3172/3172-h/3172-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3172/3172-h/3172-h.htm
sparkzilla 10y ago
++spoiler alert++

76 points by samclemens 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

UncleSlacky 10y ago

The recent Family Guy spoof nailed its weaknesses pretty well, I thought.

zwieback 10y ago

The last three paragraphs are interesting if you think of Trump as a descendant of Gatsby's NY.

fmariluis 10y ago

A fine piece of writing: "The thing that chiefly interests the basic Fitzgerald is still the florid show of modern American life — and especially the devil's dance that goes on at the top. He is unconcerned about the sweatings and sufferings of the nether herd; what engrosses him is the high carnival of those who have too much money to spend, and too much time for the spending of it. Their idiotic pursuit of sensation, their almost incredible stupidity and triviality, their glittering swinishness — these are the things that go into his notebook."

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

newswriter99 10y ago

It's surprising how much Gatsby has in common with Dandy characters like Dorian Gray. Never noticed until Mencken's review.

Grazester 10y ago
Two books I loved when I read them in my early to mid twenties. I fell in love with their main characters and the decadence.

abakker 10y ago

If you've not read his piece on Chiropractic, it is worth it. https://www.chirobase.org/12Hx/mencken.html https://www.chirobase.org/12Hx/mencken.html

abecedarius 10y ago
Most of that piece is contemptuous rhetoric, like "the simple sentimentality of a somewhat sclerotic fat woman" from the OP but without the more interesting analysis. It takes the worth of doctors of his time for granted, mentioning tonsillectomy and adenoidectomy: at least the former was much overprescribed then, I don't know about the latter. A chiropractor won't offer to remove any organs you're not sure of the use of. (I've never seen one myself.) I do like older manipulative writing for being more obvious to us, because we're not quite the target anymore. A kind of vaccine.

cafard 10y ago

I'd be curious to know how this was transcribed: it has "Totentons" evidently for "Totentanz". I seem to reread the book every n years, and often as not change my mind from the previous reading.

mci 10y ago
> it has "Totentons" evidently for "Totentanz". Same goes for "fidelis ad urnum", which should read "urnam".
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
  And probably gaudy in "gandy villas and bawdy house parties".
  - washadjeffmad 10y ago
    I imagine if not originally dictated, his draft was hand written and submitted directly for typesetting. While possibly Mencken's errors, a linotype operator botching a slug or an editor misreading a partially open 'a' wouldn't be the severe error it is today in the age of autocorrect and instantaneous type production. When you post a comment, there's just a screen between you and all of the internet and its information. Mencken might have had weeks or months and a dozen people's hands between his review and its printing. Not to mention reprintings, revisions, and the eventual OCR close to a century later.

empath75 10y ago

I don't think I'd describe Gatsby as a 'glorified anecdote'. It's fairly tightly plotted, as much as any hollywood blockbuster. But the writing does far outshine the story. It's absolutely beautiful, if perhaps a bit mawkish.

dsr_ 10y ago

Mencken describes Fitzgerald's increasing skill as a writer as a rare thing. I would argue that among really good writers, it's not rare at all. The usual course is for an author to keep learning for years, figure out what works well for them, and perhaps lose a little ground towards the end of their lives due to failing health or lack of care. Similarly, good technologists build a workshop full of techniques that experience has given them, do their highest quality work in middle to late middle age, and then retreat from active building to teach, critique or advise.

ameister14 10y ago
>The usual course is for an author to keep learning for years, figure out what works well for them, and perhaps lose a little ground towards the end of their lives due to failing health or lack of care. I haven't found that to be true, at least amongst successful authors. Certainly not enough to call it 'the usual course.' Most authors who I have seen be successful in early life don't write their best works in middle or late age.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  I think one of the problems which may make it appear that this is the case, whether or not it actually is, is that once an author has achieved some success, they are granted increasing deference by editors and publishers; this may lead to the quality of their finished work declining even while their writing skill increases.
  - chc 10y ago
    That's true, but we see the same phenomenon in a lot of fields where that isn't as true — such as bands' later albums — so it seems likely to me that there's something deeper at work a lot of the time. I suspect it's some combination of that and: - They had a reserve of good ideas and used them up faster than they could generate new ones - Their initial efforts had a lot of time to "cook" in their heads, while the later ones were forced out (similar to what you propose, only it's their internal editor that's slacking off) - They lose their enthusiasm for the profession, but they don't want to give up the success and identity they've built in the field

kapitza 10y ago

> To find a parallel for the grossness and debauchery that now reign in New York one must go back to the Constantinople of Basil I. H.L., honey, you have no idea...

B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
Between Mencken's day and today, there was a book titled Hollywood Babylon, with the expectable content. We're probably into solid Paleolithic territory by now ...

nxrabl 10y ago

"The trouble with H.L. Mencken is that he believes he is H.L. Mencken. There is no cure for a delusion of that magnitude." ... is a quote I distinctly remember reading many years ago, and which I cannot find a single reference to anywhere on the internet. Guess I'm just crazy?

GavinMcG 10y ago
If that's the extent of your craziness, you're doing pretty well: http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/movie-doesn-t-exist-and-redditors-who-think-it-does http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/mo...
chc 10y ago
It's probably a real but non-famous quote that just didn't happen to be recorded on an extant website. That's the sort of thing that's easy to lose to time.

rando444 10y ago

Regardless of the subject matter and opinions expressed, I think any reviewer who decides to give away all of the plot details within the first few sentences of a review should not be given much (if any) merit.

sanderjd 10y ago
That's an interesting perspective. I guess there's a philosophical question: what is the point of reviews? If it is to help determine whether to read or see something, then I guess I agree with you that this sort of thing largely defeats the purpose. But if it is instead to have a sort of "conversation" with the reviewer about their thoughts on something you've already read or seen, then this sort of recap is less problematic. I think I use reviews for both purposes. Using movies as an example, I'll check rottentomatoes before-the-fact to see whether there is at least a vague consensus that the movie I'm about to pay to see isn't going to be a total waste of my time. But then after I've seen it, I'll sometimes also go read what a smaller set of reviewers who I enjoy had to say about it, and compare and contrast their thoughts with my own. Both things have value to me, but in very different ways.
- bjterry 10y ago
  It's unfortunate that there aren't separate widely-used terms for recommendation style reviews and critical breakdown style reviews, because it makes it hard to find the latter when I want it. For an example, Jamahl Epsicokhan has written reviews of all the episodes of Star Trek on his site Jammer's Reviews. They break down both the plot and give criticism of the entire work, including parts that would be spoilers. Sometimes you can find these kind of articles under the term "rewatch" though.
hbosch 10y ago
I could tell you exactly what you'll see when you go to Big Sur, but that still would not spoil your trip should you drive down there yourself. You cannot spoil The Great Gatsby just by recalling the major plot points. Indeed, the novel's beauty is actually in between the parties and deaths of it's characters.

jszymborski 10y ago

For those with adblockers: https://archive.fo/eazBq https://archive.fo/eazBq

pmoriarty 10y ago

Also see Mark Twain's "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offences"[1], reviewing some of the works of James Fenimore Cooper (of "The Last of the Mohicans" fame). A sample: In his little box of stage properties he kept six or eight cunning devices, tricks, artifices for his savages and woodsmen to deceive and circumvent each other with, and he was never so happy as when he was working these innocent things and seeing them go. A favorite one was to make a moccasined person tread in the tracks of the moccasined enemy, and thus hide his own trail. Cooper wore out barrels and barrels of moccasins in working that trick. Another stage-property that he pulled out of his box pretty frequently was his broken twig. He prized his broken twig above all the rest of his effects, and worked it the hardest. It is a restful chapter in any book of his when somebody doesn’t step on a dry twig and alarm all the reds and whites for two hundred yards around. Every time a Cooper person is in peril, and absolute silence is worth four dollars a minute, he is sure to step on a dry twig. There may be a hundred handier things to step on, but that wouldn’t satisfy Cooper. Cooper requires him to turn out and find a dry twig; and if he can’t do it, go and borrow one. In fact, the Leather Stocking Series ought to have been called the Broken Twig Series. [1] - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3172/3172-h/3172-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3172/3172-h/3172-h.htm

sparkzilla 10y ago

++spoiler alert++