6 ms·

When a new popular genre gets invented or grabs the stage, like Trap music in the last couple of years, how do you view that? It's pretty obvious that it's dif

by 21 10y ago

When a new popular genre gets invented or grabs the stage, like Trap music in the last couple of years, how do you view that? It's pretty obvious that it's different from what was there before, so it is an innovation in that sense. What's the take from "serious listeners" as mentioned in the article, just a mere stylistic change, I'm very curious about this.

iammyIP 10y ago
can you quickly summarise what makes trap trap and what is the special invention here?
beat 10y ago
As a cultural innovation, trap music is cool. But from a musical standpoint, it's not terribly innovative. It's still a lot of mid-tempo 4/4. The underlying dismantling of conventional harmony was done in hip-hop 30 years ago by Dr Dre, Terminator X, and other great innovative DJs of the early hip-hop era. That said, I think hip-hop is THE driving force behind innovation in pop today. Even country music is now being driven by hip-hop concepts. The beats of trap will be around for a while, but they sure as heck didn't invent 808 kicks or filter sweeps. And it's important to distinguish between cultural innovations and real, substantial changes here. Disco was a cultural innovation 40 years ago. It's more or less dead now. 45 RPM singles were a real, substantial change.
- 21 10y ago
  There was a paper I read some years ago about a music student analyzing modern trance music, how it relates to ancient tribal music, and how both relate to the brain. It also explained the mechanism behind the "drop", how the drop is caused by the brain anticipating it and then getting a reward for a good prediction, just like you feel nice when you can predict a twist in a movie or an ad. What I am saying is that I think that what makes 4/4 so prevalent today is that it is somehow deeply connected to how our brains work, and if you consider popular music subject to Darwinian pressures, it is likely that 4/4 is the most "evolved" one (from a fitness view). Anyway, I think that in 10 years we will be passing all of our music through a deep neural network, and then ask the network to create new things, like invent a new number one hit, cultural style, or create a new work in the style of Beethoven.
- iammyIP 10y ago
  Disco is not dead in a pop context? Discos are full. 4/4 Beat is the norm. Ass shaking is standard. It's everywhere. The essence of disco and ass shaking is the essence of pop. Add sonified marriage/breakup proposals to it and then you got all pop in a basket. Hiphop is not the driving force anymore, also it did not care about harmony at all in a special way. Hiphops focus has always been on rythm. The essence of hiphop is the political rap combined with sampling (pirate citations of all kind creatively layered together). Hiphop (especially rap) has been culturally annihilated.
  - beat 10y ago
    Disco isn't just 4/4... it's a particular 16th note hi-hat groove, conventions around the use of string synths, etc. It's a stylistic period piece, and the underlying rhythms aren't widely heard these days. I don't know why you think hip hop has been "culturally annihilated". I hear it as an incredibly dynamic and forward-looking genre.
    - iammyIP 10y ago
      Yes, that 70's disco sound. That's gone; Like a snake 'Disco' has shed its skin. My point is that the essence of disco is pretty much alive. Take that to the contrast that the innovative essence of hiphop is resampling - that's pretty dead. Can you name any currently successful hip hop band that does radical resampling over all genres? It's not possible because of music industry lobbying.
      - ssalazar 10y ago
        > Take that to the contrast that the innovative essence of hiphop is resampling Resampling isn't particularly innovative as Im sure you aware of musique concrete and tape music. Hip-hop is essentially defined by the combination of rapping, sociopolitical subtexts, and, yes, specific music production techniques that include sampling but also certain types of rhythms and beats. Those are roughly in order of importance; notice how few people openly lament the death of sampling but the prominence of a white rapper will prompt endless critical and popular commentary. > that's pretty dead. Anyone who can listen to To Pimp a Butterfly and believe that hip hop is dead does not know what hip hop is. > Can you name any currently successful hip hop band that does radical resampling over all genres? When has this been the criterion for what makes a hip hop band?
- mafribe 10y ago
  As a cultural innovation, trap music is cool. In what sense? It's same old same old "Where da hoes at where da bitches at" soft-porn junk that the distraction industry has been selling to teenagers for about 3 decades.

by 21 10y ago

iammyIP 10y ago

can you quickly summarise what makes trap trap and what is the special invention here?

beat 10y ago

As a cultural innovation, trap music is cool. But from a musical standpoint, it's not terribly innovative. It's still a lot of mid-tempo 4/4. The underlying dismantling of conventional harmony was done in hip-hop 30 years ago by Dr Dre, Terminator X, and other great innovative DJs of the early hip-hop era. That said, I think hip-hop is THE driving force behind innovation in pop today. Even country music is now being driven by hip-hop concepts. The beats of trap will be around for a while, but they sure as heck didn't invent 808 kicks or filter sweeps. And it's important to distinguish between cultural innovations and real, substantial changes here. Disco was a cultural innovation 40 years ago. It's more or less dead now. 45 RPM singles were a real, substantial change.

21 10y ago
There was a paper I read some years ago about a music student analyzing modern trance music, how it relates to ancient tribal music, and how both relate to the brain. It also explained the mechanism behind the "drop", how the drop is caused by the brain anticipating it and then getting a reward for a good prediction, just like you feel nice when you can predict a twist in a movie or an ad. What I am saying is that I think that what makes 4/4 so prevalent today is that it is somehow deeply connected to how our brains work, and if you consider popular music subject to Darwinian pressures, it is likely that 4/4 is the most "evolved" one (from a fitness view). Anyway, I think that in 10 years we will be passing all of our music through a deep neural network, and then ask the network to create new things, like invent a new number one hit, cultural style, or create a new work in the style of Beethoven.
iammyIP 10y ago
Disco is not dead in a pop context? Discos are full. 4/4 Beat is the norm. Ass shaking is standard. It's everywhere. The essence of disco and ass shaking is the essence of pop. Add sonified marriage/breakup proposals to it and then you got all pop in a basket. Hiphop is not the driving force anymore, also it did not care about harmony at all in a special way. Hiphops focus has always been on rythm. The essence of hiphop is the political rap combined with sampling (pirate citations of all kind creatively layered together). Hiphop (especially rap) has been culturally annihilated.
- beat 10y ago
  Disco isn't just 4/4... it's a particular 16th note hi-hat groove, conventions around the use of string synths, etc. It's a stylistic period piece, and the underlying rhythms aren't widely heard these days. I don't know why you think hip hop has been "culturally annihilated". I hear it as an incredibly dynamic and forward-looking genre.
  - iammyIP 10y ago
    Yes, that 70's disco sound. That's gone; Like a snake 'Disco' has shed its skin. My point is that the essence of disco is pretty much alive. Take that to the contrast that the innovative essence of hiphop is resampling - that's pretty dead. Can you name any currently successful hip hop band that does radical resampling over all genres? It's not possible because of music industry lobbying.
    - ssalazar 10y ago
      > Take that to the contrast that the innovative essence of hiphop is resampling Resampling isn't particularly innovative as Im sure you aware of musique concrete and tape music. Hip-hop is essentially defined by the combination of rapping, sociopolitical subtexts, and, yes, specific music production techniques that include sampling but also certain types of rhythms and beats. Those are roughly in order of importance; notice how few people openly lament the death of sampling but the prominence of a white rapper will prompt endless critical and popular commentary. > that's pretty dead. Anyone who can listen to To Pimp a Butterfly and believe that hip hop is dead does not know what hip hop is. > Can you name any currently successful hip hop band that does radical resampling over all genres? When has this been the criterion for what makes a hip hop band?
mafribe 10y ago
As a cultural innovation, trap music is cool. In what sense? It's same old same old "Where da hoes at where da bitches at" soft-porn junk that the distraction industry has been selling to teenagers for about 3 decades.