4 ms·

Saying "no" to work that you cannot do in the timeframe requested is a eminently professional response. It happens all the time in the business world. It is unp

by gvb 10y ago

Saying "no" to work that you cannot do in the timeframe requested is a eminently professional response. It happens all the time in the business world. It is unprofessional to accept work that you cannot perform. > If he tells me he can't do it at any price, then that means I can't rely on OSS as a pillar of my business. That is a false dichotomy. With OSS, you are the only person that can block your use of that software. Ironically, your argument applies in spades to commercial software: try asking Microsoft if they are willing to change something in Windows for you. Then demand it be completed in three days. When they refuse, do you have the option to fix it via an independent company, a contractor, or yourself?

vinceguidry 10y ago
> With OSS, you are the only person that can block your use of that software. In theory I could build my own railroad. Enough patents have expired. In practice, I need engineers, because there's not enough time to learn everything.
- brennen 10y ago
  Elsewhere in this thread you asserted that "there's a price", and you don't particularly care about cost. Very well: Hire engineers and pay them a market rate.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    Cheaper to just buy commercial software.
    - taco_emoji 10y ago
      Except then what if you need THAT software updated?
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        You contact the vendor, which is a capitalistic enterprise and so will generally entertain your needs and either provide you with the support you need, at a price, or point you towards authorized alternative service providers. I'm aware that this paradigm couldn't possibly work with the OSS production model, but there's no reason the community couldn't band together and come up with something better than "hire an engineer or go fuck yourself." With a little bit of creative vision, I think the FOSS world could make a ton of money. But good luck herding those cats.
        nercht12 10y ago
        >> With a little bit of creative vision, I think the FOSS world could make a ton of money. Notably, I have considered this, and as I was reading this thread, I was reminded of the BitCoin effort[1] by OpenWhisper Systems that appeared on HN not too long ago. The thing is, it's hard to get money-making models to work for "free (libre) software" in an era of increasing entitlement. That said, if there were another such system like that of the BitCoin one (but not using BitCoin or Paypal like everyone seems to resort to), I'd definitely be interested. [1] https://whispersystems.org/blog/bithub/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/bithub/
- x0x0 10y ago
  That's the same entitlement the author complained about. Even if you're paying, you're not entitled to shit from the devs except a polite no in response to a "do this for cash please".
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    I sometimes feel like I'm living an crazy-land. Any other sector of the economy, somebody contacting you, personally, offering cash over the barrel to do something you do every single day of your life, is a great day. I mean, if you have reason to not take them seriously, that's fine, whatever. But only a programmer would actually be insulted by a serious offer. Boggles my mind.
    - nercht12 10y ago
      Because they have a different mentality. Other types of people wouldn't give you something for free, much less something they slaves hours over making. And you somehow think these same people are like everyone else?
    - x0x0 10y ago
      The blog author was insulted by (1) the person demanding work for free after he turned down doing it for money, and (2) on the demanders schedule. It's any professionals right to say, "No, thanks." For whatever reason. There's nothing unprofessional about so doing. Your assertion that just because you offered money someone is obligated to take it -- or do anything for that matter -- is the aforementioned entitlement. Perhaps he/she was on vacation. Or wanted to see his / her kids. Or wasn't in the mood. Or had other clients that were paying less but were in a long term relationship that is more important/valuable than a one day consulting fee. Or didn't feel like dealing with the accounting hassle of taking a one day fee. Or had an employer that isn't a fan of employees moonlighting. Or just wanted to stare at paint on the ceiling. Any of the above are perfectly good reasons to say no thanks, and that's the end of the obligation, full stop.
- kingosticks 10y ago
  But with OSS you are not starting from scratch, you've got a (presumably) working base to start from. You don't have to learn everything, just the part you want to improve/fix. I don't think the railroad analogy helps.

by gvb 10y ago

vinceguidry 10y ago

> With OSS, you are the only person that can block your use of that software. In theory I could build my own railroad. Enough patents have expired. In practice, I need engineers, because there's not enough time to learn everything.

brennen 10y ago
Elsewhere in this thread you asserted that "there's a price", and you don't particularly care about cost. Very well: Hire engineers and pay them a market rate.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  Cheaper to just buy commercial software.
  - taco_emoji 10y ago
    Except then what if you need THAT software updated?
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      You contact the vendor, which is a capitalistic enterprise and so will generally entertain your needs and either provide you with the support you need, at a price, or point you towards authorized alternative service providers. I'm aware that this paradigm couldn't possibly work with the OSS production model, but there's no reason the community couldn't band together and come up with something better than "hire an engineer or go fuck yourself." With a little bit of creative vision, I think the FOSS world could make a ton of money. But good luck herding those cats.
      - nercht12 10y ago
        >> With a little bit of creative vision, I think the FOSS world could make a ton of money. Notably, I have considered this, and as I was reading this thread, I was reminded of the BitCoin effort[1] by OpenWhisper Systems that appeared on HN not too long ago. The thing is, it's hard to get money-making models to work for "free (libre) software" in an era of increasing entitlement. That said, if there were another such system like that of the BitCoin one (but not using BitCoin or Paypal like everyone seems to resort to), I'd definitely be interested. [1] https://whispersystems.org/blog/bithub/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/bithub/
x0x0 10y ago
That's the same entitlement the author complained about. Even if you're paying, you're not entitled to shit from the devs except a polite no in response to a "do this for cash please".
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  I sometimes feel like I'm living an crazy-land. Any other sector of the economy, somebody contacting you, personally, offering cash over the barrel to do something you do every single day of your life, is a great day. I mean, if you have reason to not take them seriously, that's fine, whatever. But only a programmer would actually be insulted by a serious offer. Boggles my mind.
  - nercht12 10y ago
    Because they have a different mentality. Other types of people wouldn't give you something for free, much less something they slaves hours over making. And you somehow think these same people are like everyone else?
  - x0x0 10y ago
    The blog author was insulted by (1) the person demanding work for free after he turned down doing it for money, and (2) on the demanders schedule. It's any professionals right to say, "No, thanks." For whatever reason. There's nothing unprofessional about so doing. Your assertion that just because you offered money someone is obligated to take it -- or do anything for that matter -- is the aforementioned entitlement. Perhaps he/she was on vacation. Or wanted to see his / her kids. Or wasn't in the mood. Or had other clients that were paying less but were in a long term relationship that is more important/valuable than a one day consulting fee. Or didn't feel like dealing with the accounting hassle of taking a one day fee. Or had an employer that isn't a fan of employees moonlighting. Or just wanted to stare at paint on the ceiling. Any of the above are perfectly good reasons to say no thanks, and that's the end of the obligation, full stop.
kingosticks 10y ago
But with OSS you are not starting from scratch, you've got a (presumably) working base to start from. You don't have to learn everything, just the part you want to improve/fix. I don't think the railroad analogy helps.