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I don't get you. What does a developer has to do with deciding what the business needs? If your job is that, ie, figuring out what a business needs, then by all

I don't get you. What does a developer has to do with deciding what the business needs? If your job is that, ie, figuring out what a business needs, then by all means work closely with people..But I am not sure that is the type of work being discussed in this context.

d357r0y3r 10y ago
> I don't get you. What does a developer has to do with deciding what the business needs? If your job is that, ie, figuring out what a business needs, then by all means work closely with people..But I am not sure that is the type of work being discussed in this context. Well, if you're a rank and file engineer, your "job" isn't explicitly to figure out what the business needs. However, if you care about becoming more valuable over time, you owe it to yourself to understand why the business values you. The business doesn't care about the code itself, it only cares about the solutions the code creates. If it's slow, that's a problem. If it's buggy, that's a problem. My instincts tell me to accept nothing less than purity, but a business needs pragmatism and "good enough".
- nerdy 10y ago
  This is the fundamental difference between great engineers and the rest. Just giving a damn and being engaged. Seriously.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    On the other hand, most jobs and companies don't warrant being caring about aside from the salary and resume padding (hence the trend of leaving a job every other year).
discordianfish 10y ago
I actually think this illustrates the main problem with all these opinion pieces: They depend heavily on the authors experience. I only work in startups where I feel people expect me to know the business needs, I wouldn't want to work at a place where somebody 'breaks down' the business needs in small packages which need no knowledge about the business needs to implement. I think 'the good' startups realize that this old pattern doesn't work if you try to be innovative and agile.
SamBam 10y ago
If your job is doing exactly what you're told to do, and nothing else, then you'll find that you are very replaceable.
- pc86 10y ago
  And yet the same people who say that developers are not interchangeable cogs in a larger machine will fight tooth and nail requirements that they attend meetings, interact with business analysts or users, or generally do anything other than programming.
- wott 10y ago
  LOL, you think you are not? We all are very replaceable and very often replaced.
petters 10y ago
This is very incorrect in my opinion. It is every engineer's responsibility to figure out what the business needs. Perhaps an intern does not need to worry about that, but that's about it.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Nothing, if you're in a perfect waterfall environment. But requirements are never perfectly frozen, or even perfectly clear. You always run into things where you have to go back and find out what they really wanted. And the requirements always change to some degree. And being able to resolve issues faster, and respond faster to changes, is valuable to the business.
oftenwrong 10y ago
Developers at the small companies that I have worked at have had at least some input into business needs. Developers are often aware of solutions that do not occur to the business people. A business person might think we are being as efficient as we can be in process P, but then a developer may come along and say we can automate parts of process P by implementing solution S, for example. A lot of the time this sort of thing does not happen in the scheduled, structured meetings, or in email chains, or in video conferences. It happens when people in the office approach each other "out of the blue" and decide to grab a conference room and work something through face-to-face.

d357r0y3r 10y ago

> I don't get you. What does a developer has to do with deciding what the business needs? If your job is that, ie, figuring out what a business needs, then by all means work closely with people..But I am not sure that is the type of work being discussed in this context. Well, if you're a rank and file engineer, your "job" isn't explicitly to figure out what the business needs. However, if you care about becoming more valuable over time, you owe it to yourself to understand why the business values you. The business doesn't care about the code itself, it only cares about the solutions the code creates. If it's slow, that's a problem. If it's buggy, that's a problem. My instincts tell me to accept nothing less than purity, but a business needs pragmatism and "good enough".

nerdy 10y ago
This is the fundamental difference between great engineers and the rest. Just giving a damn and being engaged. Seriously.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  On the other hand, most jobs and companies don't warrant being caring about aside from the salary and resume padding (hence the trend of leaving a job every other year).

discordianfish 10y ago

I actually think this illustrates the main problem with all these opinion pieces: They depend heavily on the authors experience. I only work in startups where I feel people expect me to know the business needs, I wouldn't want to work at a place where somebody 'breaks down' the business needs in small packages which need no knowledge about the business needs to implement. I think 'the good' startups realize that this old pattern doesn't work if you try to be innovative and agile.

SamBam 10y ago

If your job is doing exactly what you're told to do, and nothing else, then you'll find that you are very replaceable.

pc86 10y ago
And yet the same people who say that developers are not interchangeable cogs in a larger machine will fight tooth and nail requirements that they attend meetings, interact with business analysts or users, or generally do anything other than programming.
wott 10y ago
LOL, you think you are not? We all are very replaceable and very often replaced.

petters 10y ago

This is very incorrect in my opinion. It is every engineer's responsibility to figure out what the business needs. Perhaps an intern does not need to worry about that, but that's about it.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

Nothing, if you're in a perfect waterfall environment. But requirements are never perfectly frozen, or even perfectly clear. You always run into things where you have to go back and find out what they really wanted. And the requirements always change to some degree. And being able to resolve issues faster, and respond faster to changes, is valuable to the business.

oftenwrong 10y ago

Developers at the small companies that I have worked at have had at least some input into business needs. Developers are often aware of solutions that do not occur to the business people. A business person might think we are being as efficient as we can be in process P, but then a developer may come along and say we can automate parts of process P by implementing solution S, for example. A lot of the time this sort of thing does not happen in the scheduled, structured meetings, or in email chains, or in video conferences. It happens when people in the office approach each other "out of the blue" and decide to grab a conference room and work something through face-to-face.