4 ms·

It's not a scam as much as it's a loophole. The other countries allow for corporations to not pay taxes if they are paying taxes in another country. Apple is pa

It's not a scam as much as it's a loophole. The other countries allow for corporations to not pay taxes if they are paying taxes in another country. Apple is paying taxes in Ireland, so they are not required to pay taxes in those other countries. In Ireland, though, the law there says that you can only be taxed on income that's actually generated in Ireland. Since Apple only generates sales income in Ireland from things like online sales and regional sales, they only get taxed on those amounts. It's a loophole. The loophole should be closed, but I don't think Apple should have to pay anything in back taxes because what they were doing was completely legal and allowed by all the laws currently in place.

scholia 10y ago
> It's not a scam as much as it's a loophole. You surely don't mean that Apple accidentally created a stateless company with no staff and no buildings to swindle taxpayers out of billions? I'm pretty sure a lot of planning went into it. If it's arguably legal, there's nothing ethical about going out of your way to devise and exploit these "loopholes". Frankly, it's just what you'd expect from a brutal multi-national corporation that mercilessly exploits underpaid Chinese workers, despite having over $200 billion in cash....
- dkonofalski 10y ago
  I never said that planning didn't go into it nor did I suggest that there was any accident. It's a loophole, though. It's a creative way to use the current, lawful tax codes. Why would a company pay more than what they're legally entitled to pay? That's literally throwing money away. As I said, in my last comment, the loophole should be closed but to suggest that Apple should pay back taxes on it is ridiculous. Edit: I also want to push back on your comment about them exploiting Chinese workers. Apple doesn't exploit the workers, the factory owners do. Apple does everything it can to minimize the exploitation of the workers including random factory audits and employee surveys. No other electronics company in the US does this and, frankly, Apple doesn't have to. They pay someone to make components for them and if the company they pay say that they can make those components, then that's really the end of the story. Apple realizes that Chinese culture and law don't support human rights and well-being so they go above and beyond to try and correct the situation. If they were as monolithic and uncaring as you claim, they wouldn't even do that.
  - scholia 10y ago
    You need to do more research. Apple says it does have responsibility for workers in its supply chain, and some of your statements are not factually correct. Here's an example of how Apple actually works. (1) Enough Foxconn workers commit suicide to put pressure on Apple. (2) Foxconn increases pay and improves working conditions. (3) Apple moves some iPhone production from Foxconn to Pegatron, which is cheaper, because Pegatron workers earn less and are treated worse. Apple moved some production from a company that made real efforts to stop child labor (school-children bussed in for "work experience" on production lines) to one where it still goes on. Given that Apple has a $200 billion cash mountain and the workers get peanuts, this is a shitty way to behave. If you want to take the line that Apple can be as unethical as it likes in exploiting Chinese workers and tax loopholes -- because profits -- then I guess you have bigger problems.
    - dkonofalski 10y ago
      Except that's not at all what I said and none of your statements are factually correct. You have no evidence for any of what you just said and ignored evidence that Apple has done more than either company to raise the standards at these factories. They moved production from Foxconn exactly because of these faults. And I never said they can be as unethical as they like either, so I won't be replying further as you can't make your point without being deceptive and straw-manning.
      - scholia 10y ago
        Haha. As I said, you need to do more research. You could start with China Labor Watch. You'd also do better if you approached this with an open mind. > They moved production from Foxconn exactly because of these faults. Love to see your evidence for that, if there is any. > ignored evidence that Apple has done more than either company to raise the standards at these factories Depends how you measure it. Apple makes the most money and, because it needs to maintain a false image, it has the most to lose. However, it's been aware of child labor since 2008, if not earlier. It must also be aware that companies engineer around its guidelines, so they are more of a PR stunt than anything else. A hugely rich company like Apple could certainly make a difference if it were serious. Pity it isn't.

scholia 10y ago

> It's not a scam as much as it's a loophole. You surely don't mean that Apple accidentally created a stateless company with no staff and no buildings to swindle taxpayers out of billions? I'm pretty sure a lot of planning went into it. If it's arguably legal, there's nothing ethical about going out of your way to devise and exploit these "loopholes". Frankly, it's just what you'd expect from a brutal multi-national corporation that mercilessly exploits underpaid Chinese workers, despite having over $200 billion in cash....

dkonofalski 10y ago
I never said that planning didn't go into it nor did I suggest that there was any accident. It's a loophole, though. It's a creative way to use the current, lawful tax codes. Why would a company pay more than what they're legally entitled to pay? That's literally throwing money away. As I said, in my last comment, the loophole should be closed but to suggest that Apple should pay back taxes on it is ridiculous. Edit: I also want to push back on your comment about them exploiting Chinese workers. Apple doesn't exploit the workers, the factory owners do. Apple does everything it can to minimize the exploitation of the workers including random factory audits and employee surveys. No other electronics company in the US does this and, frankly, Apple doesn't have to. They pay someone to make components for them and if the company they pay say that they can make those components, then that's really the end of the story. Apple realizes that Chinese culture and law don't support human rights and well-being so they go above and beyond to try and correct the situation. If they were as monolithic and uncaring as you claim, they wouldn't even do that.
- scholia 10y ago
  You need to do more research. Apple says it does have responsibility for workers in its supply chain, and some of your statements are not factually correct. Here's an example of how Apple actually works. (1) Enough Foxconn workers commit suicide to put pressure on Apple. (2) Foxconn increases pay and improves working conditions. (3) Apple moves some iPhone production from Foxconn to Pegatron, which is cheaper, because Pegatron workers earn less and are treated worse. Apple moved some production from a company that made real efforts to stop child labor (school-children bussed in for "work experience" on production lines) to one where it still goes on. Given that Apple has a $200 billion cash mountain and the workers get peanuts, this is a shitty way to behave. If you want to take the line that Apple can be as unethical as it likes in exploiting Chinese workers and tax loopholes -- because profits -- then I guess you have bigger problems.
  - dkonofalski 10y ago
    Except that's not at all what I said and none of your statements are factually correct. You have no evidence for any of what you just said and ignored evidence that Apple has done more than either company to raise the standards at these factories. They moved production from Foxconn exactly because of these faults. And I never said they can be as unethical as they like either, so I won't be replying further as you can't make your point without being deceptive and straw-manning.
    - scholia 10y ago
      Haha. As I said, you need to do more research. You could start with China Labor Watch. You'd also do better if you approached this with an open mind. > They moved production from Foxconn exactly because of these faults. Love to see your evidence for that, if there is any. > ignored evidence that Apple has done more than either company to raise the standards at these factories Depends how you measure it. Apple makes the most money and, because it needs to maintain a false image, it has the most to lose. However, it's been aware of child labor since 2008, if not earlier. It must also be aware that companies engineer around its guidelines, so they are more of a PR stunt than anything else. A hugely rich company like Apple could certainly make a difference if it were serious. Pity it isn't.