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> For a rich white dude up in a 50th floor penthouse, “the future of cities” might mean zipping around in a flying car while a robot jerks you off and a drone d

> For a rich white dude up in a 50th floor penthouse, “the future of cities” might mean zipping around in a flying car while a robot jerks you off and a drone delivers your pizza. The guy must think people of color are incapable of attaining that level of wealth. Unintentional racism, but racism all the same.

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enraged_camel 10y ago
Well, if you want to go there, it's also sexism. He said "dude". Does that mean he thinks women are also incapable of attaining that level of wealth? I think he simply wanted to rely on a common stereotype to refer to ultra-wealthy people who live completely different lives and are generally out of touch with reality.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Well, had the author said "black gal", half of the Internet would be on Twitter with pitchforks right now. I do believe that people breaking symmetry inherent in racism and sexism are creating a problem in the society. For any statement containing $race and $gender, it's either racist/sexist or it's not, regardless of the actual values of $race and $gender.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > I think he simply wanted to rely on a common stereotype to refer to ultra-wealthy people who live completely different lives and are generally out of touch with reality. Well, yeah. Can you name any other race-gender combination aside from "white male" where negative stereotypes are tossed around as casually as this, by people who purport to be enlightened and fair-minded?
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iamatworknow 10y ago
By that token is it also sexist because he said "dude"? Where do you draw the line? Seriously, not every mention of race is racist. Saying this is racism cheapens the whole idea of racism and hurts whatever it is you believe you're fighting for by "calling it out". You're effectively putting a guy who mentioned someone's (hypothetical, as it's not even in reference to a real person) skin color in the same category as people who burn crosses, or deny people of color job opportunities based solely on race, or lynch children. To put it in terms appropriate for HN you're adding an extremely small outlier to the data set of "racists" and thus bringing down the entire average.
cmurf 10y ago
That's a stereotype, not racism. It could be a cliche stereotype (rich white dude), which is itself a bit racist and sexist. But at the base level it's a stereotype, not racism.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  >That's a stereotype, not racism. It could be a cliche stereotype (rich white dude), which is itself a bit racist and sexist. But at the base level it's a stereotype, not racism. Would you consider the cliche stereotype "black woman on welfare" to be racist?
thebradbain 10y ago
See, I'm a "white dude" yet I don't find this statement racist in the slightest. It's an objective truth that white males are disproportionately wealthier than any other demographic. It's just like saying Baby Boomers are the wealthiest generation at the expense of GenX and Millenials: fact. The author never said nor implied that white males are the only rich people in society. Whether or not money inherently makes you out of touch with the rest of society, though, I'll leave for another day...
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > See, I'm a "white dude" yet I don't find this statement racist in the slightest. As a white dude, would you have thought it racist if that line had been modified to read: "For a Hip-Hop mogul wearing a half-pound of gold chains around his neck, and $400 basketball shoes on his feet, 'the future of cities' might mean zipping around in a flying car while a robot jerks you off and a drone delivers your bottles of Cristal." Seriously, would you deem that racist or not?
  - jkmcf 10y ago
    I would call your description a stereotype, excluding the flying car and robot, but I'm sure there are also white, hip hop dudes that fit there as well.
  - thebradbain 10y ago
    The only thing making me hesitant to give a simple yes/no answer is the implication of tieing my example to a "hip-hop mogul wearing a half-pount of gold chains around his neck and $400 basketball shoes on his feet" - are you trying to imply these people are systematically black? And if so, are you trying to imply that most rich black men dress like this? If you are (which I don't think you are), I think you can answer your own question. If not, then I don't think the comparison stands: you're implying a wealthy individual ("a Hip-Hop mogul") is representative of a whole race when his circumstances are (for lack of better wording) merely an exception to the rule, whereas "rich white men" is, objectively, a non-misleading statement, as white men are statistically the wealthiest demographic. Of course, I could have read to deep into your question entirely - I'm not an expert in this field. Thank you for the thought provoking discussion regardless, though.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Um, did you think that quote was a positive description?
theandrewbailey 10y ago
> The guy must think people of color are incapable of attaining that level of wealth. There is insufficient evidence to support that claim.
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enraged_camel 10y ago

Well, if you want to go there, it's also sexism. He said "dude". Does that mean he thinks women are also incapable of attaining that level of wealth? I think he simply wanted to rely on a common stereotype to refer to ultra-wealthy people who live completely different lives and are generally out of touch with reality.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Well, had the author said "black gal", half of the Internet would be on Twitter with pitchforks right now. I do believe that people breaking symmetry inherent in racism and sexism are creating a problem in the society. For any statement containing $race and $gender, it's either racist/sexist or it's not, regardless of the actual values of $race and $gender.
rhapsodic 10y ago
> I think he simply wanted to rely on a common stereotype to refer to ultra-wealthy people who live completely different lives and are generally out of touch with reality. Well, yeah. Can you name any other race-gender combination aside from "white male" where negative stereotypes are tossed around as casually as this, by people who purport to be enlightened and fair-minded?

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iamatworknow 10y ago

By that token is it also sexist because he said "dude"? Where do you draw the line? Seriously, not every mention of race is racist. Saying this is racism cheapens the whole idea of racism and hurts whatever it is you believe you're fighting for by "calling it out". You're effectively putting a guy who mentioned someone's (hypothetical, as it's not even in reference to a real person) skin color in the same category as people who burn crosses, or deny people of color job opportunities based solely on race, or lynch children. To put it in terms appropriate for HN you're adding an extremely small outlier to the data set of "racists" and thus bringing down the entire average.

cmurf 10y ago

That's a stereotype, not racism. It could be a cliche stereotype (rich white dude), which is itself a bit racist and sexist. But at the base level it's a stereotype, not racism.

rhapsodic 10y ago
>That's a stereotype, not racism. It could be a cliche stereotype (rich white dude), which is itself a bit racist and sexist. But at the base level it's a stereotype, not racism. Would you consider the cliche stereotype "black woman on welfare" to be racist?

thebradbain 10y ago

See, I'm a "white dude" yet I don't find this statement racist in the slightest. It's an objective truth that white males are disproportionately wealthier than any other demographic. It's just like saying Baby Boomers are the wealthiest generation at the expense of GenX and Millenials: fact. The author never said nor implied that white males are the only rich people in society. Whether or not money inherently makes you out of touch with the rest of society, though, I'll leave for another day...

rhapsodic 10y ago
> See, I'm a "white dude" yet I don't find this statement racist in the slightest. As a white dude, would you have thought it racist if that line had been modified to read: "For a Hip-Hop mogul wearing a half-pound of gold chains around his neck, and $400 basketball shoes on his feet, 'the future of cities' might mean zipping around in a flying car while a robot jerks you off and a drone delivers your bottles of Cristal." Seriously, would you deem that racist or not?
- jkmcf 10y ago
  I would call your description a stereotype, excluding the flying car and robot, but I'm sure there are also white, hip hop dudes that fit there as well.
- thebradbain 10y ago
  The only thing making me hesitant to give a simple yes/no answer is the implication of tieing my example to a "hip-hop mogul wearing a half-pount of gold chains around his neck and $400 basketball shoes on his feet" - are you trying to imply these people are systematically black? And if so, are you trying to imply that most rich black men dress like this? If you are (which I don't think you are), I think you can answer your own question. If not, then I don't think the comparison stands: you're implying a wealthy individual ("a Hip-Hop mogul") is representative of a whole race when his circumstances are (for lack of better wording) merely an exception to the rule, whereas "rich white men" is, objectively, a non-misleading statement, as white men are statistically the wealthiest demographic. Of course, I could have read to deep into your question entirely - I'm not an expert in this field. Thank you for the thought provoking discussion regardless, though.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

Um, did you think that quote was a positive description?

theandrewbailey 10y ago

> The guy must think people of color are incapable of attaining that level of wealth. There is insufficient evidence to support that claim.

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