3 ms·

I understand your opinion as a consumer but it's not a real problem (minor annoyance at most) compared to millions of consumer devices with outdated drivers (w

by exDM69 10y ago

I understand your opinion as a consumer but it's not a real problem (minor annoyance at most) compared to millions of consumer devices with outdated drivers (with possible security problems). The "experience" thing is optional afaik.

matt4077 10y ago
Let's meet in the middle and do it like Apple? Also, as a consumer the "experience" seems to matter a lot more to me than ... whatever the other side of this argument is ... the hardship for programmers? And since you're bringing up security: if there are security holes in GPU driver installations, I'd bet eliminating all the crapware would do a lot more for security than any number of updates could ever do.
- gsnedders 10y ago
  The worst place for security bugs in drivers is mobile, for the normal mobile reason (try getting security updates for any OS component!), and there's no crapware there.
- exDM69 10y ago
  Yes, some kind of meet in the middle solution would be nice. For example, Microsoft's official updater keeping the drivers up to date. And by up to date I mean the latest from the GPU vendor and not something a bit older but certified by MS. Getting rid of 3rd party installers and updaters should be a priority of Microsoft's anyway. > if there are security holes in GPU driver installations, I'd bet eliminating all the crapware would do a lot more for security than any number of updates could ever do. The "crapware" is just some unprivileged user space processes. The driver has kernel mode components, and security issues there could cause crashes, snooping memory of other processes or even kernel space remote code execution. Not that I'm defending bundled (or optional) crapware, but I don't think that's a security problem.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  > Let's meet in the middle and do it like Apple? Apple's OpenGL drivers (on desktop at least) are the worst in the industry, and that is not an exaggeration. I have found so many cases in which you can make shaders read random memory ([1] for example) that I'm no longer surprised. [1]: https://github.com/servo/webrender/commit/96ac2f13b9b73dcfa08498726a3861fd6253b9bd https://github.com/servo/webrender/commit/96ac2f13b9b73dcfa0...

by exDM69 10y ago

matt4077 10y ago

Let's meet in the middle and do it like Apple? Also, as a consumer the "experience" seems to matter a lot more to me than ... whatever the other side of this argument is ... the hardship for programmers? And since you're bringing up security: if there are security holes in GPU driver installations, I'd bet eliminating all the crapware would do a lot more for security than any number of updates could ever do.

gsnedders 10y ago
The worst place for security bugs in drivers is mobile, for the normal mobile reason (try getting security updates for any OS component!), and there's no crapware there.
exDM69 10y ago
Yes, some kind of meet in the middle solution would be nice. For example, Microsoft's official updater keeping the drivers up to date. And by up to date I mean the latest from the GPU vendor and not something a bit older but certified by MS. Getting rid of 3rd party installers and updaters should be a priority of Microsoft's anyway. > if there are security holes in GPU driver installations, I'd bet eliminating all the crapware would do a lot more for security than any number of updates could ever do. The "crapware" is just some unprivileged user space processes. The driver has kernel mode components, and security issues there could cause crashes, snooping memory of other processes or even kernel space remote code execution. Not that I'm defending bundled (or optional) crapware, but I don't think that's a security problem.
pcwalton 10y ago
> Let's meet in the middle and do it like Apple? Apple's OpenGL drivers (on desktop at least) are the worst in the industry, and that is not an exaggeration. I have found so many cases in which you can make shaders read random memory ([1] for example) that I'm no longer surprised. [1]: https://github.com/servo/webrender/commit/96ac2f13b9b73dcfa08498726a3861fd6253b9bd https://github.com/servo/webrender/commit/96ac2f13b9b73dcfa0...