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> But that's the whole idea of Apple controlling the hardware and software: that they can take both in any direction they want, without being held back by anoth

> But that's the whole idea of Apple controlling the hardware and software: that they can take both in any direction they want, without being held back by another party Right. Which is why an "ordinary user" probably shouldn't expect it to "just work". (That said, in this kind of situation Arch Linux is probably your best bet since it's rolling-release with the most-up-to-date drivers -- outside of compiling your own kernel. It's not trivial to install, though, and that's probably for the best, honestly.)

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Arch is actually trivial to install, provided you know the basic UNIX commands. Also, the Arch Wiki is some of the best documentation for any distro, anywhere. So that helps.
- lomnakkus 10y ago
  > Arch is actually trivial to install, ... Not for "ordinary users" which is what we're discussing here. For that you'd need an actual installer of some type. Totally agree about the Arch Wiki -- it's incredible.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    Not for "ordinary users," no. But if you're the sort of person who would want what Arch provides, than you're also the sort of person for whom the install would be trivial.
    - lomnakkus 10y ago
      Unless you're an "ordinary" Mac user who wants a working Linux.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Well, then, you wouldn't want what arch provides. It's not for everyone, and certainly not for the writer of the original article.
        lomnakkus 10y ago
        > Well, then, you wouldn't want what arch provides. Sometimes, what Arch provides is "it works" as opposed to "it doesn't work". (This was the point I was trying to make.) This is not a hypothetical. I turned a coworked onto Arch by this simply being the only Linux distro that would work on his Macbook Pro (ca. 2015, I think?). He tried Ubuntu recently (12.10)... still didn't work because it could not understand the disk on his machine. This guy is a very competent developer. He's not afraid of a command line. It still took him a few hours (IIRC) to get it installed. (Including with my help + googling various things about how the Mac EFI thing works/doesn't. Incidentally he still has to press some magic key combo on every startup to avoid MacOS starting up. It's goddamn ridiculous.)
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Fair 'nuff. The EFI bits, and keypress combo, however, are true of any Mac.
        c3d 10y ago
        You only need to press alt if you want to change the OS to boot relative to last time. It's a convenient way to bring up a built-in graphical boot menu with Internet boot and system restore capabilities. And a nice Fedora logo on my machine.
        lomnakkus 10y ago
        I don't have an exact idea of what my colleague is doing during boot, but it appears that he needs to press the button on every boot. I think (given his background) he'd have investigated the available options by now, but I don't know...
coldtea 10y ago
>Right. Which is why an "ordinary user" probably shouldn't expect it to "just work". Yes, but there's a thing to balance this: unlike PCs which come in 200000 models, there are only a handful of Mac models, and they remain the same for a year or so before the next update. So, it should be easier to target those with Linux drivers than to target tons of individual devices, even if Apple does change their hardware.
- jheriko 10y ago
  its more complicated than just drivers, apple have over the last few iterations changed the boot mechanism to make it difficult

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

Arch is actually trivial to install, provided you know the basic UNIX commands. Also, the Arch Wiki is some of the best documentation for any distro, anywhere. So that helps.

lomnakkus 10y ago
> Arch is actually trivial to install, ... Not for "ordinary users" which is what we're discussing here. For that you'd need an actual installer of some type. Totally agree about the Arch Wiki -- it's incredible.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Not for "ordinary users," no. But if you're the sort of person who would want what Arch provides, than you're also the sort of person for whom the install would be trivial.
  - lomnakkus 10y ago
    Unless you're an "ordinary" Mac user who wants a working Linux.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      Well, then, you wouldn't want what arch provides. It's not for everyone, and certainly not for the writer of the original article.
      - lomnakkus 10y ago
        > Well, then, you wouldn't want what arch provides. Sometimes, what Arch provides is "it works" as opposed to "it doesn't work". (This was the point I was trying to make.) This is not a hypothetical. I turned a coworked onto Arch by this simply being the only Linux distro that would work on his Macbook Pro (ca. 2015, I think?). He tried Ubuntu recently (12.10)... still didn't work because it could not understand the disk on his machine. This guy is a very competent developer. He's not afraid of a command line. It still took him a few hours (IIRC) to get it installed. (Including with my help + googling various things about how the Mac EFI thing works/doesn't. Incidentally he still has to press some magic key combo on every startup to avoid MacOS starting up. It's goddamn ridiculous.)
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Fair 'nuff. The EFI bits, and keypress combo, however, are true of any Mac.
        c3d 10y ago
        You only need to press alt if you want to change the OS to boot relative to last time. It's a convenient way to bring up a built-in graphical boot menu with Internet boot and system restore capabilities. And a nice Fedora logo on my machine.
        lomnakkus 10y ago
        I don't have an exact idea of what my colleague is doing during boot, but it appears that he needs to press the button on every boot. I think (given his background) he'd have investigated the available options by now, but I don't know...

coldtea 10y ago

>Right. Which is why an "ordinary user" probably shouldn't expect it to "just work". Yes, but there's a thing to balance this: unlike PCs which come in 200000 models, there are only a handful of Mac models, and they remain the same for a year or so before the next update. So, it should be easier to target those with Linux drivers than to target tons of individual devices, even if Apple does change their hardware.

jheriko 10y ago
its more complicated than just drivers, apple have over the last few iterations changed the boot mechanism to make it difficult