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Interesting. I have a theory that most historic shifts are mainly due to some technological advancement or invention, and not mainly due to politics. For exampl

Interesting. I have a theory that most historic shifts are mainly due to some technological advancement or invention, and not mainly due to politics. For example, Nazi Germany may have been the result of the invention or mass distribution of the radio as a method of influencing a nation. It is known that the Romans conquered Europe due to military strategy and superior iron weapons. The list goes on and on, however, history books tend to focus only on the sociological or political story.

riffraff 10y ago
I am generally in the same camp (technological changes have the greatest effect) but radio->Nazi Germany seems a bit too extreme reductionism. On the other hand, you can partly derive the political system from technological changes too (I.e. without the socialist scare you don't get fascist regimes, and without the industrial revolution you don't get socialism)
- neikos 10y ago
  Well, we have Social Media and Trump \s
  - pyromine 10y ago
    I mean that was said in sarcasm, but there is a lot of discussion going on that the changing methods of communication can be having significant ramifications in all aspects of society. People have made arguments stating that Trump is a manifestation of anti-social behaviors that are reliant on reinforcement through online echo-chambers which remove any form of social-moderation. The extent of which I agree with this arguments I'm not quite certain, but I do think from a sociology standpoint it's foolish not to investigate how the internet's changes to how we communicate have lead to changes in how we think, and potentially our collective political leanings. Media theory is really fascinating when you dig in to it, and we should be mindful that we're still in the early days of the internet in the grand scheme of things, and society is still adjusting to what will forever be the new normal.
linuskendall 10y ago
The theory of Kondratiev waves link closely to this idea, though the link between Nazi German and radios might be a somewhat too simplified model. There were quite few other historical antecedents that can be linked to rise of Nazi Germany.
Lasokki 10y ago
Do note that this idea of technological determinism[0] is referenced directly in the parent article. As for me, I'd like to think that a bit more nuanced approach is better. Yes, stirrups might enable men to use horses in new ways and to brace themselves on horseback. But this sort of expensive heavily armoured cavalry cannot exists in a vacuum. It needs a class of wealthy people who can buy armour and horses. The wealthy need some sort of motivation to train themselves as warriors and so on. If you are interested in the subject, The Making of Europe: Conquest, Colonization and Cultural Change, 950-1350 by Robert Bartlett [1] is an excellent book on the subject. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_determinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_determinism [1] https://www.amazon.com/Making-Europe-Conquest-Colonization-Cultural/dp/0691037809 https://www.amazon.com/Making-Europe-Conquest-Colonization-C...
- usrusr 10y ago
  > It needs a class of wealthy people who can buy armour and horses. A chicken/egg cycle, initialized by temporary imbalances that created a stable system: an increased advantage of cavalry over infantry drives up the price for "protection", which in turn feeds the horses. With less advantage of cavalry over infantry, the class system would have been much less pronounced. In the spirit of "strange women lying in ponds distributing swords": a fluent socio-economic power structure was converted into an intransparent class system self-stabilized by the barrier of entry imposed by the inherent cost of heavy cavalry.
- woodandsteel 10y ago
  > I'd like to think that a bit more nuanced approach is better. I agree. I think that a given technology has requirements and consequences that determine a lot about the society it is in, but it also presents various possibilities that will be determined by external factors, such as politics.

riffraff 10y ago

I am generally in the same camp (technological changes have the greatest effect) but radio->Nazi Germany seems a bit too extreme reductionism. On the other hand, you can partly derive the political system from technological changes too (I.e. without the socialist scare you don't get fascist regimes, and without the industrial revolution you don't get socialism)

neikos 10y ago
Well, we have Social Media and Trump \s
- pyromine 10y ago
  I mean that was said in sarcasm, but there is a lot of discussion going on that the changing methods of communication can be having significant ramifications in all aspects of society. People have made arguments stating that Trump is a manifestation of anti-social behaviors that are reliant on reinforcement through online echo-chambers which remove any form of social-moderation. The extent of which I agree with this arguments I'm not quite certain, but I do think from a sociology standpoint it's foolish not to investigate how the internet's changes to how we communicate have lead to changes in how we think, and potentially our collective political leanings. Media theory is really fascinating when you dig in to it, and we should be mindful that we're still in the early days of the internet in the grand scheme of things, and society is still adjusting to what will forever be the new normal.

linuskendall 10y ago

The theory of Kondratiev waves link closely to this idea, though the link between Nazi German and radios might be a somewhat too simplified model. There were quite few other historical antecedents that can be linked to rise of Nazi Germany.

Lasokki 10y ago

Do note that this idea of technological determinism[0] is referenced directly in the parent article. As for me, I'd like to think that a bit more nuanced approach is better. Yes, stirrups might enable men to use horses in new ways and to brace themselves on horseback. But this sort of expensive heavily armoured cavalry cannot exists in a vacuum. It needs a class of wealthy people who can buy armour and horses. The wealthy need some sort of motivation to train themselves as warriors and so on. If you are interested in the subject, The Making of Europe: Conquest, Colonization and Cultural Change, 950-1350 by Robert Bartlett [1] is an excellent book on the subject. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_determinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_determinism [1] https://www.amazon.com/Making-Europe-Conquest-Colonization-Cultural/dp/0691037809 https://www.amazon.com/Making-Europe-Conquest-Colonization-C...

usrusr 10y ago
> It needs a class of wealthy people who can buy armour and horses. A chicken/egg cycle, initialized by temporary imbalances that created a stable system: an increased advantage of cavalry over infantry drives up the price for "protection", which in turn feeds the horses. With less advantage of cavalry over infantry, the class system would have been much less pronounced. In the spirit of "strange women lying in ponds distributing swords": a fluent socio-economic power structure was converted into an intransparent class system self-stabilized by the barrier of entry imposed by the inherent cost of heavy cavalry.
woodandsteel 10y ago
> I'd like to think that a bit more nuanced approach is better. I agree. I think that a given technology has requirements and consequences that determine a lot about the society it is in, but it also presents various possibilities that will be determined by external factors, such as politics.