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> a big name in tech anymore Donald Trump is making headlines using Twitter every day. I think that once users/victims become immune to Facebook's dark patter

> a big name in tech anymore Donald Trump is making headlines using Twitter every day. I think that once users/victims become immune to Facebook's dark patterns, Twitter will look pretty good. The only thing it can do to screw that up is continue censoring content and allowing botnets.

narrator 10y ago
What's just bizarre is that they were seriously considering censoring Donald Trump's account at one point and even announced it. From a purely business standpoint, that was a dumb idea even to propose. It makes you wonder about the rationality of management and if they view the company as some sort of hipster San Francisco hobby paid for by VCs and not as a profit making enterprise.
- SapphireSun 10y ago
  It's amazing from a business perspective, but at a certain point ethical questions arise. Should Twitter give a world shakingly powerful lier an unfiltered platform to the public? If he had to go through the press, everything he said would be filtered by editors and fact checkers. Incredible business opportunity, but frankly, the fate of the world is in part being determined by Twitter's granting him a platform. I can understand their vacillation around this issue.
  - sumedh 10y ago
    > Should Twitter give a world shakingly powerful lier an unfiltered platform to the public? All Politicians lie. Twitter is not in the business of being a fact checker.
    - foldr 10y ago
      Not all politicians retweet white supremacists, though.
      - foldr 10y ago
        To the downvoters: this is directly relevant, as hate speech violates twitter's rules, and they have indicated that they will apply these rules to Trump's account just like anyone else's: > Asked whether Twitter would ever consider banning key government officials or even the president himself, a company spokesperson responded via email: “The Twitter Rules prohibit violent threats, harassment, hateful conduct, and multiple account abuse, and we will take action on accounts violating those policies.” Pressed on whether that meant that, hypothetically, Trump himself could be suspended were he to violate those policies, a spokesperson confirmed: “The Twitter Rules apply to all accounts, including verified accounts.”
        concinds 10y ago
        The anti-"hate speech" hysteria is simply reflective of the Silicon Valley political bubble, and its inevitable biases. The MTV video would have been considered hate speech had it been directed at any other ethnicity. Twitter going out of their way to say that they might ban the US President isn't exactly a sign of the professionalism and maturity people expect from multinational executives.
        SapphireSun 10y ago
        Rather, I believe the correct interpretation is the opposite. The US President is not demonstrating the level of maturity and professionalism we expect from the leader of the free world. We're not playing small ball here.
  - inimino 10y ago
    > If he had to go through the press, everything he said would be filtered by editors and fact checkers. Are you joking? The press would say "'...', Donald Trump said on Monday". Anyone who can't infer the "Donald Trump said" part from the Twitter UI shouldn't be unsupervised near a computer or a newspaper.
    - SapphireSun 10y ago
      You're 100% correct, though some of his sitting on the toilet thoughts might not make it to the public. What the news, when its being done correctly, does is provide surrounding context to interpret the remarks. This is valuable even for normal politicians as, it bears repeating, it is impossible for the population as a whole to be informed on every issue, and most people aren't informed on even a few. Low information constituents will misinterpret remarks without context. It also encourages him to publicize views that can withstand press scrutiny. The outrageous stuff we see on Twitter might have been self censored if he had to tell it to a skeptical press that will place them in context. Prior presidents have been very circumspect in what they say, which has reduced the pressure on this point. Extreme situations pressure us to discard gray areas. In order to maintain a healthy civic discourse, we need everyone to cooperate more and be more generous to the other side, but this can't be done unilaterally or you just get steamrolled.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Are you talking about something stronger than they said here? http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2016/11/would_facebook_or_twitter_ban_president_trump.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2016/11/...
- grandalf 10y ago
  > dumb idea Most definitely. I think the management logic went something like the following: - Why aren't twitter's ad impressions worth a fraction of Facebook's? - Because FB uses an algorithmic feed which allows more precise targeting based on engagement, which has a lot more data points than Retweets or replies. - OK let's build that. - Done - Wait, why is there unsavory content showing up as a trending topic on Twitter? - Because people engage with it, and due to the shape of Twitter's graph, there's a much greater chance of users encountering content that has not been as thoroughly vetted by the social filter (compared to Facebook). - We must stop this. - How, we already offer verified accounts and disallow overt harassment. - Well, let's just remove unsavory stuff from the trending list. - Done - Wait, that didn't really stop it, what else can we do? - Censorship - Love it, let's do it. We can help the cause of good by preventing users from seeing content that we deem unsavory.
fjdlwlv 10y ago
Donald Trump is making Twitter a key part of a massive tragic farce befalling the USA in the world. Yeah, it's publicity, and likely some money, but it's a toxic horror show.

narrator 10y ago

What's just bizarre is that they were seriously considering censoring Donald Trump's account at one point and even announced it. From a purely business standpoint, that was a dumb idea even to propose. It makes you wonder about the rationality of management and if they view the company as some sort of hipster San Francisco hobby paid for by VCs and not as a profit making enterprise.

SapphireSun 10y ago
It's amazing from a business perspective, but at a certain point ethical questions arise. Should Twitter give a world shakingly powerful lier an unfiltered platform to the public? If he had to go through the press, everything he said would be filtered by editors and fact checkers. Incredible business opportunity, but frankly, the fate of the world is in part being determined by Twitter's granting him a platform. I can understand their vacillation around this issue.
- sumedh 10y ago
  > Should Twitter give a world shakingly powerful lier an unfiltered platform to the public? All Politicians lie. Twitter is not in the business of being a fact checker.
  - foldr 10y ago
    Not all politicians retweet white supremacists, though.
    - foldr 10y ago
      To the downvoters: this is directly relevant, as hate speech violates twitter's rules, and they have indicated that they will apply these rules to Trump's account just like anyone else's: > Asked whether Twitter would ever consider banning key government officials or even the president himself, a company spokesperson responded via email: “The Twitter Rules prohibit violent threats, harassment, hateful conduct, and multiple account abuse, and we will take action on accounts violating those policies.” Pressed on whether that meant that, hypothetically, Trump himself could be suspended were he to violate those policies, a spokesperson confirmed: “The Twitter Rules apply to all accounts, including verified accounts.”
      - concinds 10y ago
        The anti-"hate speech" hysteria is simply reflective of the Silicon Valley political bubble, and its inevitable biases. The MTV video would have been considered hate speech had it been directed at any other ethnicity. Twitter going out of their way to say that they might ban the US President isn't exactly a sign of the professionalism and maturity people expect from multinational executives.
        SapphireSun 10y ago
        Rather, I believe the correct interpretation is the opposite. The US President is not demonstrating the level of maturity and professionalism we expect from the leader of the free world. We're not playing small ball here.
- inimino 10y ago
  > If he had to go through the press, everything he said would be filtered by editors and fact checkers. Are you joking? The press would say "'...', Donald Trump said on Monday". Anyone who can't infer the "Donald Trump said" part from the Twitter UI shouldn't be unsupervised near a computer or a newspaper.
  - SapphireSun 10y ago
    You're 100% correct, though some of his sitting on the toilet thoughts might not make it to the public. What the news, when its being done correctly, does is provide surrounding context to interpret the remarks. This is valuable even for normal politicians as, it bears repeating, it is impossible for the population as a whole to be informed on every issue, and most people aren't informed on even a few. Low information constituents will misinterpret remarks without context. It also encourages him to publicize views that can withstand press scrutiny. The outrageous stuff we see on Twitter might have been self censored if he had to tell it to a skeptical press that will place them in context. Prior presidents have been very circumspect in what they say, which has reduced the pressure on this point. Extreme situations pressure us to discard gray areas. In order to maintain a healthy civic discourse, we need everyone to cooperate more and be more generous to the other side, but this can't be done unilaterally or you just get steamrolled.
maxerickson 10y ago
Are you talking about something stronger than they said here? http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2016/11/would_facebook_or_twitter_ban_president_trump.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2016/11/...
grandalf 10y ago
> dumb idea Most definitely. I think the management logic went something like the following: - Why aren't twitter's ad impressions worth a fraction of Facebook's? - Because FB uses an algorithmic feed which allows more precise targeting based on engagement, which has a lot more data points than Retweets or replies. - OK let's build that. - Done - Wait, why is there unsavory content showing up as a trending topic on Twitter? - Because people engage with it, and due to the shape of Twitter's graph, there's a much greater chance of users encountering content that has not been as thoroughly vetted by the social filter (compared to Facebook). - We must stop this. - How, we already offer verified accounts and disallow overt harassment. - Well, let's just remove unsavory stuff from the trending list. - Done - Wait, that didn't really stop it, what else can we do? - Censorship - Love it, let's do it. We can help the cause of good by preventing users from seeing content that we deem unsavory.

fjdlwlv 10y ago

Donald Trump is making Twitter a key part of a massive tragic farce befalling the USA in the world. Yeah, it's publicity, and likely some money, but it's a toxic horror show.