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As a fairly active Mormon... I'm curious what you see as the difference between the leaders and the people. I would think most of the Mormons you know support m

As a fairly active Mormon... I'm curious what you see as the difference between the leaders and the people. I would think most of the Mormons you know support most of the things you find distasteful in the leaders. (Edit: I don't mean to say the nice Mormons are secretly as horrible as you think the leaders are, although that's one possible conclusion. Just trying to figure out how a group of supposedly-vile leaders so consistently produces supposedly-great people.)

zeroer 10y ago
Well, I've never had interactions with the leadership, or at least not anyone more senior that holding some sort of small leadership position in a local temple. My experience with "church leadership" is just from reading the news or leaks. And since it's news, it's pretty much all negative. And with the Mormons I meet in real life I try pretty hard not to get into theological or controversial topics. This is the same way I'd treat anybody else in real life, so maybe the Mormons I meet hold some horrific views that would disgust me? All the better that I don't get into that with acquaintances. I'm just trying to comment on this very weird phenomenon that Mormons are unusually nice when compared to other groups of people. I don't know why this is. I'm speaking of my own personal experience here, but I know I'm not the only one who perceives this.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
henrikschroder 10y ago
Here's a leaked video of a briefing for the Q15 about Chelsea Manning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpVh24_wGoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpVh24_wGoY Yeah, let's focus on whether Chelsea Manning is gay or not. Really important. Very enlightened.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  The jump cuts in that video are clear. The person who leaked these very likely had access to years and years of daily briefings (which is what these are, they're not discussions/deliberations as some try to claim), and yet was only able to select 15-ish (don't remember exactly how many) short, highly-edited clips to try to concoct a controversy. It didn't work because no one is surprised that a group of 80+-year-old men who preach that homosexuality is sinful are uncomfortable with homosexuality. This is really the MO of these bitter ex-Mormon groups. They are constantly desperately trying to kick up controversies that just don't have any meat to them, purely out of personal spite. They then express surprise that people without a grudge are uninterested and they have to make their own fake Wikileaks because the real WL knows these standard internal documents are of no public interest.
- sorryisaidthat 10y ago
  > Yeah, let's focus on whether Chelsea Manning is gay or not. Really important. Very enlightened. Chelsea being gay/gender dysphoric is quite relevant to the Chelsea story. It's one reason she joined the army (hoping masculine environment would resolve her dysphoria), it's one reason she was bullied by coworkers and felt unhappy and isolated (augmented by don't ask don't tell). It was in that environment that Chelsea decided to leak. The main reason we know Chelsea did the leak is because she confided in Adrian the rat Lamo because he was gay. (reasonable people can disagree whether Lamo was right to rat) Also, the briefing is about its potential relevance to the Church. In recent years one of the most common reasons people become disassociated from the LDS church is their policies and teachings and political activism regarding homosexuality, it's also one of the biggest criticisms from the mainstream, so it is perfectly reasonable that if a church employee ends up leaking confidential information they stand a significant chance of being disgruntled over homosexual issues. FWIW: I admire what Chelsea did with the leaks, am saddened that she was so poorly treated/tortured, think she should be pardoned, appreciate that reasonable people can disagree on this, am a believing Mormon, and think homosexual acts are sinful.

zeroer 10y ago

Well, I've never had interactions with the leadership, or at least not anyone more senior that holding some sort of small leadership position in a local temple. My experience with "church leadership" is just from reading the news or leaks. And since it's news, it's pretty much all negative. And with the Mormons I meet in real life I try pretty hard not to get into theological or controversial topics. This is the same way I'd treat anybody else in real life, so maybe the Mormons I meet hold some horrific views that would disgust me? All the better that I don't get into that with acquaintances. I'm just trying to comment on this very weird phenomenon that Mormons are unusually nice when compared to other groups of people. I don't know why this is. I'm speaking of my own personal experience here, but I know I'm not the only one who perceives this.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

henrikschroder 10y ago

Here's a leaked video of a briefing for the Q15 about Chelsea Manning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpVh24_wGoY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpVh24_wGoY Yeah, let's focus on whether Chelsea Manning is gay or not. Really important. Very enlightened.

cookiecaper 10y ago
The jump cuts in that video are clear. The person who leaked these very likely had access to years and years of daily briefings (which is what these are, they're not discussions/deliberations as some try to claim), and yet was only able to select 15-ish (don't remember exactly how many) short, highly-edited clips to try to concoct a controversy. It didn't work because no one is surprised that a group of 80+-year-old men who preach that homosexuality is sinful are uncomfortable with homosexuality. This is really the MO of these bitter ex-Mormon groups. They are constantly desperately trying to kick up controversies that just don't have any meat to them, purely out of personal spite. They then express surprise that people without a grudge are uninterested and they have to make their own fake Wikileaks because the real WL knows these standard internal documents are of no public interest.
sorryisaidthat 10y ago
> Yeah, let's focus on whether Chelsea Manning is gay or not. Really important. Very enlightened. Chelsea being gay/gender dysphoric is quite relevant to the Chelsea story. It's one reason she joined the army (hoping masculine environment would resolve her dysphoria), it's one reason she was bullied by coworkers and felt unhappy and isolated (augmented by don't ask don't tell). It was in that environment that Chelsea decided to leak. The main reason we know Chelsea did the leak is because she confided in Adrian the rat Lamo because he was gay. (reasonable people can disagree whether Lamo was right to rat) Also, the briefing is about its potential relevance to the Church. In recent years one of the most common reasons people become disassociated from the LDS church is their policies and teachings and political activism regarding homosexuality, it's also one of the biggest criticisms from the mainstream, so it is perfectly reasonable that if a church employee ends up leaking confidential information they stand a significant chance of being disgruntled over homosexual issues. FWIW: I admire what Chelsea did with the leaks, am saddened that she was so poorly treated/tortured, think she should be pardoned, appreciate that reasonable people can disagree on this, am a believing Mormon, and think homosexual acts are sinful.