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yeah, but what is your actual point? do you even have one or do you just want to grumble about how bad the kids are these days? what is your position? what do

yeah, but what is your actual point? do you even have one or do you just want to grumble about how bad the kids are these days? what is your position? what do you think the purpose the university is? do you think the behavioral problems you're discussing are causal or correlative? I'm really just asking you to present a coherent statement of your opinion, whatever it is, because besides your general sense of hostility and derision I can't tell what you really think.

nickff 10y ago
As someone who graduated college in 2011, I am one of 'the kids these days'. I really don't know why people aren't taking advantage of University as a venue to read, exchange new ideas, and learn. All I know is that we have been increasing subsidies to borrowing, and the outcomes have not been good, so we should probably stop.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  > I really don't know why people aren't taking advantage of University as a venue to read, exchange new ideas, and learn my opinion/supposition: because they are children and behave as children. childhood lasts well into your 20s for a large class of people in the United States. because our society in general doesn't value reading, exchanging new ideas, and learning so why should the university be an exception? our society is currently entering a period where political/tribal struggle is _trumping_ almost all other concerns. when the social fabric is as frayed and torn as it currently is the university suffers. because our society has established a strict regime of "credentialism" which has driven home the message that a university degree is a necessary credential for employment that provides a middle class income. because it is a rational response to this social/economic trend to acquire the credential for the minimum of effort, since many students are only participating because of the need for the credential and they have no inherent love of the subject they're studying. because those who really do have a love of reading, exchanging new ideas, and learning discover quickly that the university is not a particularly good environment for those activities after all, with all the distractions of careerism, politics, and economic stress that accompanies an academic life. (sidenote: this is why I dropped out of my PhD track in philosophy, and only years later went back to school for computer science) but that's just my opinion on things, based on my experience in the university. I do allow for the possibility that somewhere, someone is having a better time with it. my question for you: you linked a few articles that were advancing the position that the university system should 1) be optimized for job skills training, and 2) should be generally dismantled/defunded as a social institution. do you support that position yourself?
  - nickff 10y ago
    I think you're at least mostly if not entirely on the money with what is happening at universities right now, but that doesn't make it better. I subscribe to Bryan Caplan's theory of the 'signalling model of education'. My personal position is that universities should be exclusively focused on academic and non-applied science activities. They should almost entirely be liberal arts, and un-subsidized, probably focusing more on part-time studies and 2-3 year programs than degrees. This would be a model of university education as a venue for personal growth, and I would have liked to attend a university like this. I would be against subsidizing the technical institutes (which would teach engineering, computer science, etc.), but would understand the reasoning in favor of it.

nickff 10y ago

As someone who graduated college in 2011, I am one of 'the kids these days'. I really don't know why people aren't taking advantage of University as a venue to read, exchange new ideas, and learn. All I know is that we have been increasing subsidies to borrowing, and the outcomes have not been good, so we should probably stop.

metaphorm 10y ago
> I really don't know why people aren't taking advantage of University as a venue to read, exchange new ideas, and learn my opinion/supposition: because they are children and behave as children. childhood lasts well into your 20s for a large class of people in the United States. because our society in general doesn't value reading, exchanging new ideas, and learning so why should the university be an exception? our society is currently entering a period where political/tribal struggle is _trumping_ almost all other concerns. when the social fabric is as frayed and torn as it currently is the university suffers. because our society has established a strict regime of "credentialism" which has driven home the message that a university degree is a necessary credential for employment that provides a middle class income. because it is a rational response to this social/economic trend to acquire the credential for the minimum of effort, since many students are only participating because of the need for the credential and they have no inherent love of the subject they're studying. because those who really do have a love of reading, exchanging new ideas, and learning discover quickly that the university is not a particularly good environment for those activities after all, with all the distractions of careerism, politics, and economic stress that accompanies an academic life. (sidenote: this is why I dropped out of my PhD track in philosophy, and only years later went back to school for computer science) but that's just my opinion on things, based on my experience in the university. I do allow for the possibility that somewhere, someone is having a better time with it. my question for you: you linked a few articles that were advancing the position that the university system should 1) be optimized for job skills training, and 2) should be generally dismantled/defunded as a social institution. do you support that position yourself?
- nickff 10y ago
  I think you're at least mostly if not entirely on the money with what is happening at universities right now, but that doesn't make it better. I subscribe to Bryan Caplan's theory of the 'signalling model of education'. My personal position is that universities should be exclusively focused on academic and non-applied science activities. They should almost entirely be liberal arts, and un-subsidized, probably focusing more on part-time studies and 2-3 year programs than degrees. This would be a model of university education as a venue for personal growth, and I would have liked to attend a university like this. I would be against subsidizing the technical institutes (which would teach engineering, computer science, etc.), but would understand the reasoning in favor of it.