7 ms·

My wife's a second-year resident and it's pretty unbelievable how hard and how much they work. She's on her 18th straight day of working long days during the we

by pdxandi 10y ago

My wife's a second-year resident and it's pretty unbelievable how hard and how much they work. She's on her 18th straight day of working long days during the week and long nights during the weekend. Legally there's an 80-hour per week cap, but no resident would ever complain. They do 24 hour shifts, but never 30 hour ones, though other programs at her hospital do. I felt upset about her hours all through medical school only to discover residency is worse. There are no fellows in her program either so the residents handle it all. I feel I've just accepted her terrible schedule at this point. I'm most saddened that we won't be able to have children for another five years until she's completed her fellowship, especially because I'm in my mid-30s. Writing this comment makes me realize how painful it feels at times that her medical training runs our lives.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
matrix 10y ago
If she is pursuing a demanding specialty, consider having your kids while she's a resident; I've known a few people that did it and while it's hard, it can be the lesser of evils. Fellowship is just as hard - maybe even harder - than residency, and when you're practicing she likely won't be eligible for maternity leave initially and can face pressure from the group to keep on working (otherwise someone else might end up having those brutal all-weekend calls back-to-back... not a good way for the new person to make themselves popular with their group). Of course, it's a different story if she will be in a more sane line of work, such as hospitalist, ER doc, etc.
- pdxandi 10y ago
  She's sub-specializing in intensive care, unfortunately. We've discussed having children toward the end of fellowship for the reasons you state. It's a tough decision for us because I'll likely carry the brunt of the parental workload, but we also depend on my income for living expenses and loan repayment.
  - llimllib 10y ago
    We waited until my wife was done with residency and fellowship, and it has worked out well for us. We have our second child on the way shortly, feel free to message me if I can help in any way.
azsromej 10y ago
My wife's in her final year of residency, so I know what you mean. I work from home in part to be around when she's off, but the demands of the lifestyle are especially clear when you see neighbors pulling into driveways at 5:30pm, friends enjoying a full weekend, vacations, and having several days off around the holidays. Residency, by not granting you those things that people normally take for granted, helps you appreciate them!
- pdxandi 10y ago
  I'm in the exact same boat. I work remotely and even though I've had a few job offers, one last night actually, I feel it's more important to have my flexibility here so I can see my wife when she's home. I find it especially helpful when she's on night shifts when her at-home time is <8 hours; I can move my day around hers to make meals and help wake her with coffee.
rileyteige 10y ago
I can definitely relate with you on this story. My wife is getting ready to start an OB/GYN residency next year (lasts 4 years for those who don't know). She just wrapped up interview season and each program had just about the same scheduling for their residents: 5 12-hour shifts at a minimum if you're lucky with one 24-hour shift per week on top of that. Often times I heard "one weekend off every six weeks". Then there's call. I write this as I read more through your comment... the statement on the kids, medical training running your life... all true. The other part, that I'm sure you can personally relate to, is "The Match". The "sorting hat" algorithm that all 4th-year med school students have to go through. For those unaware, the match dictates the program that a doctor candidate (MD or DO) must attend for residency. Given where my wife attended medical school, we already know that we're going to have to pack up and leave the home that we've established over 4 years since there are no residencies in our region. But since everything is done through "The Match", it's really a toss-up where in the country we end up (she applied to every program in the country since competition mandates that everybody do absolutely everything)... we'll be finding out in about 6 weeks where we will live come summertime. "Runs our lives"... so accurate. I do what I can to support my wife through this endless process, but boy is it exhausting for everyone involved. I have no clue how she does it. It truly is an enormous sacrifice of - really - some of the best (at least youthful) years of your life. Want to become a doctor? Say bye-bye to your 20s. Edit: drawing context from another person who also commented on your post, we've also heard kids during second-half of residency can be a good route to go. We're thinking 3rd year ourselves.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > My wife is getting ready to start an OB/GYN residency next year (lasts 4 years for those who don't know). She just wrapped up interview season and each program had just about the same scheduling for their residents: 5 12-hour shifts at a minimum if you're lucky with one 24-hour shift per week on top of that. Often times I heard "one weekend off every six weeks". Then there's call. How does this work out in the long term? In the places I've seen that (not medical). It stops after a while because either the rhythm got back to normal or people burned out.
  - 10y ago
theluketaylor 10y ago
A family member is the administrative director of a demanding internal medicine residency program here in Canada, and I can say from experience nearly all the residents take maternity or paternity leave during their residency. The program is incredibly accommodating to new parents, partially driven by Canada's strong parental leave laws, but mostly because they recognize doctors are people too. From what I hear US based programs haven't come to the same realization.
Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago
If you're worried about the effects of your age on your child, why not freeze her eggs and your sperm?
- 1888franklin 10y ago
  yeah, why not? nbd. smh. "freezing eggs" is not a trivial solution. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/21/women-fertility-egg-freezing https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/21/women-...
- Spooky23 10y ago
  IVF is no walk in the park. If you don't have the time to have sex and give birth, you sure as hell don't have time to go through IVF retrieval cycles!
mcv 10y ago
So what happened? Was there a massive disaster that created an overwhelming flood of patients, that everybody needs to work overtime? Because under normal circumstances, a competently run hospital should be able to function with normal 8-hour shifts. If that's not possible, then management fucked up. Accepting these kind of hours as standard is completely unreasonable and dangerous, especially in hospital, where lives depend people being awake enough to do their job safely. People responsible for that should not merely be fired, but locked up.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  The AMA enforces an arbitrary limit on the number of medical school spots and therefore doctors in the US. They create a shortage of doctors in order to keep doctors' pay high.
  - rileyteige 10y ago
    I was unaware of the medical school cap, but there is a residency cap set by congress in 1997 that also aggravates the issue: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducation/42786 http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducat... >Medicare already funds a bulk of the residency training in this country -- to the tune of about $9.5 billion a year. But its support was capped by Congress in the Budget Control Act of 1997.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      The medical system has billions of free cash flow. Big hospitals could fund lots more residency spots.
      - marcoperaza 10y ago
        Exactly. The "limited federal funding" canard is a brazen excuse by the AMA to deflect attention from their own role, and to lobby for more free money. No one ever argues against more free money for themselves.
koolba 10y ago
Why can't you have children? Would it completely throw her off her eventual completion of her residency or just delay it? All women deal with it differently, but most are able to function within their normal bounds until at least the six or seventh month. > Writing this comment makes me realize how painful it feels at times that her medical training runs our lives. s/runs/ruins/?
- kelnos 10y ago
  Post-birth is a consideration as well. Assuming the parents intend to breast-feed, the child will need the mother every hour or two for several months after birth. After a few month the interval widens, but not by much -- at least, not by enough to allow the mother to take on anywhere near a regular doctor's workload. So it's not just the last few months of pregnancy that are a concern.

by pdxandi 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

matrix 10y ago

If she is pursuing a demanding specialty, consider having your kids while she's a resident; I've known a few people that did it and while it's hard, it can be the lesser of evils. Fellowship is just as hard - maybe even harder - than residency, and when you're practicing she likely won't be eligible for maternity leave initially and can face pressure from the group to keep on working (otherwise someone else might end up having those brutal all-weekend calls back-to-back... not a good way for the new person to make themselves popular with their group). Of course, it's a different story if she will be in a more sane line of work, such as hospitalist, ER doc, etc.

pdxandi 10y ago
She's sub-specializing in intensive care, unfortunately. We've discussed having children toward the end of fellowship for the reasons you state. It's a tough decision for us because I'll likely carry the brunt of the parental workload, but we also depend on my income for living expenses and loan repayment.
- llimllib 10y ago
  We waited until my wife was done with residency and fellowship, and it has worked out well for us. We have our second child on the way shortly, feel free to message me if I can help in any way.

azsromej 10y ago

My wife's in her final year of residency, so I know what you mean. I work from home in part to be around when she's off, but the demands of the lifestyle are especially clear when you see neighbors pulling into driveways at 5:30pm, friends enjoying a full weekend, vacations, and having several days off around the holidays. Residency, by not granting you those things that people normally take for granted, helps you appreciate them!

pdxandi 10y ago
I'm in the exact same boat. I work remotely and even though I've had a few job offers, one last night actually, I feel it's more important to have my flexibility here so I can see my wife when she's home. I find it especially helpful when she's on night shifts when her at-home time is <8 hours; I can move my day around hers to make meals and help wake her with coffee.

rileyteige 10y ago

I can definitely relate with you on this story. My wife is getting ready to start an OB/GYN residency next year (lasts 4 years for those who don't know). She just wrapped up interview season and each program had just about the same scheduling for their residents: 5 12-hour shifts at a minimum if you're lucky with one 24-hour shift per week on top of that. Often times I heard "one weekend off every six weeks". Then there's call. I write this as I read more through your comment... the statement on the kids, medical training running your life... all true. The other part, that I'm sure you can personally relate to, is "The Match". The "sorting hat" algorithm that all 4th-year med school students have to go through. For those unaware, the match dictates the program that a doctor candidate (MD or DO) must attend for residency. Given where my wife attended medical school, we already know that we're going to have to pack up and leave the home that we've established over 4 years since there are no residencies in our region. But since everything is done through "The Match", it's really a toss-up where in the country we end up (she applied to every program in the country since competition mandates that everybody do absolutely everything)... we'll be finding out in about 6 weeks where we will live come summertime. "Runs our lives"... so accurate. I do what I can to support my wife through this endless process, but boy is it exhausting for everyone involved. I have no clue how she does it. It truly is an enormous sacrifice of - really - some of the best (at least youthful) years of your life. Want to become a doctor? Say bye-bye to your 20s. Edit: drawing context from another person who also commented on your post, we've also heard kids during second-half of residency can be a good route to go. We're thinking 3rd year ourselves.

user5994461 10y ago
> My wife is getting ready to start an OB/GYN residency next year (lasts 4 years for those who don't know). She just wrapped up interview season and each program had just about the same scheduling for their residents: 5 12-hour shifts at a minimum if you're lucky with one 24-hour shift per week on top of that. Often times I heard "one weekend off every six weeks". Then there's call. How does this work out in the long term? In the places I've seen that (not medical). It stops after a while because either the rhythm got back to normal or people burned out.
- 10y ago

theluketaylor 10y ago

A family member is the administrative director of a demanding internal medicine residency program here in Canada, and I can say from experience nearly all the residents take maternity or paternity leave during their residency. The program is incredibly accommodating to new parents, partially driven by Canada's strong parental leave laws, but mostly because they recognize doctors are people too. From what I hear US based programs haven't come to the same realization.

Moshe_Silnorin 10y ago

If you're worried about the effects of your age on your child, why not freeze her eggs and your sperm?

1888franklin 10y ago
yeah, why not? nbd. smh. "freezing eggs" is not a trivial solution. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/21/women-fertility-egg-freezing https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/21/women-...
Spooky23 10y ago
IVF is no walk in the park. If you don't have the time to have sex and give birth, you sure as hell don't have time to go through IVF retrieval cycles!

mcv 10y ago

So what happened? Was there a massive disaster that created an overwhelming flood of patients, that everybody needs to work overtime? Because under normal circumstances, a competently run hospital should be able to function with normal 8-hour shifts. If that's not possible, then management fucked up. Accepting these kind of hours as standard is completely unreasonable and dangerous, especially in hospital, where lives depend people being awake enough to do their job safely. People responsible for that should not merely be fired, but locked up.

marcoperaza 10y ago
The AMA enforces an arbitrary limit on the number of medical school spots and therefore doctors in the US. They create a shortage of doctors in order to keep doctors' pay high.
- rileyteige 10y ago
  I was unaware of the medical school cap, but there is a residency cap set by congress in 1997 that also aggravates the issue: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducation/42786 http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/MedicalEducat... >Medicare already funds a bulk of the residency training in this country -- to the tune of about $9.5 billion a year. But its support was capped by Congress in the Budget Control Act of 1997.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    The medical system has billions of free cash flow. Big hospitals could fund lots more residency spots.
    - marcoperaza 10y ago
      Exactly. The "limited federal funding" canard is a brazen excuse by the AMA to deflect attention from their own role, and to lobby for more free money. No one ever argues against more free money for themselves.

koolba 10y ago

Why can't you have children? Would it completely throw her off her eventual completion of her residency or just delay it? All women deal with it differently, but most are able to function within their normal bounds until at least the six or seventh month. > Writing this comment makes me realize how painful it feels at times that her medical training runs our lives. s/runs/ruins/?

kelnos 10y ago
Post-birth is a consideration as well. Assuming the parents intend to breast-feed, the child will need the mother every hour or two for several months after birth. After a few month the interval widens, but not by much -- at least, not by enough to allow the mother to take on anywhere near a regular doctor's workload. So it's not just the last few months of pregnancy that are a concern.