8 ms·

Hawaii's Final Sugar Cargo Departs Maui Aboard 'Moku Pahu'

73 points by protomyth 10y ago

digikata 10y ago
Aww, I still remember the old C&H sugar ads on TV when I was a kid. "C&H, pure cane sugar, from Hawaii..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_and_Hawaiian_Sugar_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_and_Hawaiian_Sugar_...
- mark-r 10y ago
  Wheee! Dang you, now I've got an earworm.
theparanoid 10y ago
My great-grandfather managed the C&H Bay Area sugar refinery. Life comes full circle.
asciimo 10y ago
Where's the sugar coming from now? I assume they're not closing due to reduced demand.
- dpark 10y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if demand for cane sugar was down. Most foods substituted corn syrup decades ago. And of the sugar sold, it's not all cane sugar. Much of the sugar is sourced from beets.
  - mark-r 10y ago
    Our government has been limiting sugar imports forever, to maintain a domestic production capacity. In the end all we ended up doing is providing the impetus for a substitute - the production is going away anyway.
    - scurvy 10y ago
      The price of sugar also crashed this year. It rebounded only to start crashing again. I think economics played a large role in Hawaii.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - dnautics 10y ago
      Actually that's untrue. There's very little domestic cane sugar (beet sugar only can be turned into white sugar). Government has been limiting sugar imports with a tariff regime because a single family runs the Dominican refineries and they lobby Congress to keep tariffs up everywhere but there and thus secure a monopoly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers If you are a small household cook you may not know this but you should buy all of your white sugar in the fall when the Montana beet crop comes in and drops the price (though commodity options trading may have smoothened that out a bit in recent years)
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        It costs less than $1 a pound in small packages. It's probably not worth thinking about it unless you use quite a large amount of sugar.
  - niftich 10y ago
    'Cane sugar' has a good brand image though, especially in upmarket circles. The 2000s were marked by consumer trends increasingly rejecting HFCS so several products were reformulated with crystalline sucrose, often sourced from sugarcane and shown on packaging as 'cane sugar'. The trend was so acute that in 2010 the Corn Refiners Association petitioned the FDA to change the designation 'corn sugar' to be usable to refer to HFCS [1] (which was ultimately denied). But then in 2013, due to "consumer indifference", many mass-market products switched back to HFCS while sugar prices where high. So what gives? Has sugar crashed since then? [1] http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFSAN/CFSANFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm305226.htm http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFS... [2] http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/HFCS-free-The-trend-stalled-by-consumer-indifference http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/HFCS-free-The-trend...
    - bfuller 10y ago
      I know USA grows a lot of beets for sugar
  - ams6110 10y ago
    Cane/beet sugar is making a comeback, for some reason people seem to think it's healthier than HFCS.
    - feld 10y ago
      The body certainly handles fructose differently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis
- scurvy 10y ago
  Brazil? I know that they grow a lot for their local ethanol gasoline blends. Not sure how much is for export though.
  - ucaetano 10y ago
    Pretty much all of it. Production is private and producers switch from ethanol to sugar according to international sugar prices & local gas prices. India is also a large producer.
- bitwize 10y ago
  If cane sugar were introduced into the USA today, it would be classified as a Schedule I drug, being toxic and more addictive than cocaine. I wouldn't be surprised if the unpleasant discoveries surrounding sugar in recent years have substantially hurt the sugar business.
tricolon 10y ago
This article manages to spell the ship's name three ways: "Maku Pahu", "Mako Pahu", and "Moku Pahu". Only the last way is correct.
- kaiku 10y ago
  It isn't even a terribly difficult Hawaiian name, either!
TbobbyZ 10y ago
My grandfather owns a home in Maui. His opinion on the factory, even thought it brought jobs, it caused lots of pollution and only survived for so long because of government subsidies. If that is true, good riddance.
- gthtjtkt 10y ago
  Hawaii should be glad they're gone, sugar farms are destroying Florida. They fill lake Okeechobee with pollution, and then that pollution has to be drained periodically, destroying everything in its path and rendering beaches unusable for days or weeks at a time. This year, it was so bad that they declared a State of Emergency. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/us/florida-algae-pollution/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/us/florida-algae-pollution/ > "The algae outbreaks are triggered by fertilizer sewage and manure pollution that the state has failed to properly regulate. It's like adding miracle grow to the water and it triggers massive algae outbreaks,"
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Floridian here! The only lobby more powerful than the utilities is the sugar lobby.
- emidln 10y ago
  I visit my parents in Kihei every year. I certainly won't miss waking up to the smell of burning cane and "Maui Snow" aka black ash covering the entire downwind area in a thin layer. I can't imagine having asthma and living with that.
- mark242 10y ago
  Those cane fields on the way from Kahului to Kihei, while beautiful, seem like a massive wasted space. I like the idea of a decently-sized solar farm to replace the power plant just above Kihei.
  - erickhill 10y ago
    I hope it doesn't get bulldozed for apartments and more strip malls, like near the airport right up the road.
creeble 10y ago
C&H produces 6 million pounds of sugar a day. I wonder where they get it from now?
- Naritai 10y ago
  I haven't found info about this company, but many countries from South & Central America, as well as Indonesia and the Philippines, are all major sugarcane exporters.
  - knz 10y ago
    Australia as well.
- geomark 10y ago
  Top 3 sugar exporting countries by US$ volume in 2015 were Brazil, Thailand and India [1] [1] http://www.worldstopexports.com/sugar-exports-country/ http://www.worldstopexports.com/sugar-exports-country/
greenmountin 10y ago
TFA says the plantation took a $MM loss on their last sugar harvest, and intends to "diversify". According to another article about the company [0], this diversification is: """ • Energy crops: “HC&S has initiated crop trials to evaluate potential sources of feedstock for anaerobic conversion to biogas,” stated the company’s press release. The statement added that HC&S has entered into “preliminary, but confidential, discussions with other bioenergy industry players to explore additional crop-to-energy opportunities.” • Cattle: As noted above, HC&S is “working with Maui Cattle Company to conduct a grass-finishing pasture trial in 2016.” • Food crops: “A&B plans to establish an agriculture park on former sugar lands in order to provide opportunities for farmers to access these agricultural lands and support the cultivation of food crops on Maui.” Former company employees would get preference in leasing lots. """ [0] http://mauitime.com/news/business/as-the-sun-sets-on-maui-sugar-we-ask-what-the-closing-of-abs-plantation-means-for-us/ http://mauitime.com/news/business/as-the-sun-sets-on-maui-su...
- komali2 10y ago
  I'm coming in with very little knowledge of Hawaii, but having lived in Taiwan, beef was very expensive compared to back home in Texas because there isn't really any cattle industry on the mountainous island - it's all imported. Wondering if it's the same for Hawaii and thus they stand to make quite a bit of money selling locally? Or shipping to the relatively close Asian/Pacific Islands that also don't have cattle?
  - dnautics 10y ago
    No. Pretty much the entire big island is a cattle ranch. However beef is expensive in Hawaii because due to state law, cattle must be sent out of state to the abbatoir before it hits your plate. Ranching on Maui probably seeks to take advantage of the infrastructure already available because of operations on the big island.
    - derekp7 10y ago
      Is there some advantage to laws such as this? If not, what would state lawmakers lose if they repealed this law? For their re-election, they could claim to have had a major positive economic impact by lowering food prices, that I'm sure the voting public would eat up.
musesum 10y ago
There has been a lot of interest in Breadfruit as a slow carb crop. A friend mentioned that demand exceeds current supply.
- linksnapzz 10y ago
  As I understand it, breadfruit trees produce seasonally, so that when they ripen, you've got a ton of breadfruit to deal with, and figure out how to preserve/freeze etc. And then, for the rest of the year, you have no breadfruit. I thought that was the barrier to its viability as a commercial crop. Anyway, I'm glad I got to see the fields of cane growing out of the bright red dirt on either side of the highway from Kahului to Wailea. I even made a wrong turn and ended up in the parking lot of that sugar plant-it was about the most industrial thing I saw on Maui.
  - musesum 10y ago
    Hmmm, that's the first I've heard about limited season, maybe for a particular variety? There are so many kinds. Searching "breadfruit growing season" yields: https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/breadfruit.html https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/breadfruit.html I forwarded the OP to my friend from Global Manna. His opinion about the effects of cane on the Island biome were less fond.
rednerrus 10y ago
C&H has been violating the Clean Air Act since it was written. Thank god they're finally finished releasing tons of toxic chemicals into the air.
rwmurrayVT 10y ago
I believe the Maku Pahu will be headed to the scrap yard shortly. They had a recent availability for perspective bidders to shipcheck. The award has yet to be announced, and the rumour is they will cancel the project. No reason to repair a ship headed to a scrap yard.
sxcurry 10y ago
BTW, the gcaptain website is an ongoing source of interesting ship related news.
- komali2 10y ago
  For some reason that just strikes me as hilariously hacker-newsish. Every time I come here there's a thread full of niche experts fervently discussing yarn, clay tile roofs, or boats or whatever. "Check out this site, it's got cool boat news." Love it, love that it exists, love that people read it.
manachar 10y ago
From my perspective on Maui I think the fate of this factory shows a problem for any business. Had they modernized their equipment and methods years ago when profits were good, they very likely could have continued to operate at a profit and with the support of the community. Instead, they kept the field burning, the impossibly ancient mill equipment, and didn't adapt to the dropping price of the sugar to focus on more secondary goods like rum, organic sugar, etc. By the time they realized they'd either have to change or go out of business they were too ingrained to change and didn't have the profits to invest in changing anyways. It's a bittersweet change for Maui. The real fear is that all of this ag land will increasingly be converted to inefficient subdivisions as has happened on O'ahu and is happening at Maui Lani and up in Kula.
- bradleyjg 10y ago
  The real fear is that all of this ag land will increasingly be converted to inefficient subdivisions as has happened on O'ahu and is happening at Maui Lani and up in Kula. Inefficient in what sense? Edit: Thanks for the reply.
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
    I imagine if you have lots of small, different plots, tilling it becomes less efficient. You need ways to move between plots, you have to leave space to the fence / side of the plot, you cannot drive straight for long distances.
  - manachar 10y ago
    O'ahu has some of the worst traffic in the country hugely because of spread out neighborhoods/subdivisions rather than investing in density. We don't have enough land to build large enough highways, subdivisions, and the standard car-based strip-malls. I will admit, from a certain economic standpoint, ag land in Hawaii is much less efficient than low-density housing. I do believe that the negative externalities not included in that point of view should be considered (e.g. environmental cost, harm to the tourist industry, the ever nebulous quality of life, etc.). The economic pressures to build subdivisions are huge as the cost of housing is way out of proportion to the incomes of locals, but demand continues to outstrip supply and with as limited of land as we have, we're just not going to be able to ever reduce costs by trying to supply demand with subdivisions. Unfortunately, we also tend to pass laws limiting height and density and don't have enough mixed zoning areas.
jdonaldson 10y ago
The range of sentiment here runs from "good riddance" to "dire economic indicator". I used to be of the mind that food should fit under the standard economic principles of other markets (e.g., produce food where it's cheapest/best/most efficient). However, after seeing what happens during natural disasters/blights/global warming etc, I'm thinking that diversified food production is a national hedge, and wondering if government subsidies towards continuing local production is prudent here. I'm reminded of a documentary on Jamaica, and the effects of forced open trade agreements as part of IMF loan conditions : http://www.lifeanddebt.org/ http://www.lifeanddebt.org/ Clearly, Hawaii is not Jamaica wrt international trade, but it does have some of the same themes : 1. Open trade is not really fair, since subsidies are almost always involved for competing farms as well. 2. The loss of large amounts of easy low paying jobs can be devastating to local economies, which carries additional costs 3. Once gone, agricultural industry is difficult/impossible to restart (requiring large amounts of land, irrigation infrastructure, logistics, etc.)
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  Strongly agree -- resilience against catastrophe is an externality that the market general prices at $0, unless government intervenes. Simple example: we all benefit from not getting hit by asteroids, but good luck trying to build a profitable business based on that fact.
- devsquid 10y ago
  Also what do we do with all of that land, now that we aren't going to grow sugar cane or pineapples on it. I don't thing any of the islands can house many more people.
icu 10y ago
What a great example of the Aloha Spirit. Although I have long left my home state, it touches me deeply to know my fellow Hawaiians keep the Spirit alive.
zilchers 10y ago
The way they harvested the sugar involved burning the fields (I believe after harvest, but could be wrong) which lead to unusually high levels of respiratory illnesses on Maui - I think this is net-net good, but like the rest of the country, more areas of job growth are needed. Interestingly, Maui has one of the lowest levels of unemployment in the country at around 4% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4596502/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4596502/ https://www.google.com/search?q=hawaii+unemployment+rate https://www.google.com/search?q=hawaii+unemployment+rate

73 points by protomyth 10y ago

Aww, I still remember the old C&H sugar ads on TV when I was a kid. "C&H, pure cane sugar, from Hawaii..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_and_Hawaiian_Sugar_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_and_Hawaiian_Sugar_...

mark-r 10y ago
Wheee! Dang you, now I've got an earworm.

theparanoid 10y ago

My great-grandfather managed the C&H Bay Area sugar refinery. Life comes full circle.

asciimo 10y ago

Where's the sugar coming from now? I assume they're not closing due to reduced demand.

dpark 10y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if demand for cane sugar was down. Most foods substituted corn syrup decades ago. And of the sugar sold, it's not all cane sugar. Much of the sugar is sourced from beets.
- mark-r 10y ago
  Our government has been limiting sugar imports forever, to maintain a domestic production capacity. In the end all we ended up doing is providing the impetus for a substitute - the production is going away anyway.
  - scurvy 10y ago
    The price of sugar also crashed this year. It rebounded only to start crashing again. I think economics played a large role in Hawaii.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dnautics 10y ago
    Actually that's untrue. There's very little domestic cane sugar (beet sugar only can be turned into white sugar). Government has been limiting sugar imports with a tariff regime because a single family runs the Dominican refineries and they lobby Congress to keep tariffs up everywhere but there and thus secure a monopoly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers If you are a small household cook you may not know this but you should buy all of your white sugar in the fall when the Montana beet crop comes in and drops the price (though commodity options trading may have smoothened that out a bit in recent years)
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      It costs less than $1 a pound in small packages. It's probably not worth thinking about it unless you use quite a large amount of sugar.
- niftich 10y ago
  'Cane sugar' has a good brand image though, especially in upmarket circles. The 2000s were marked by consumer trends increasingly rejecting HFCS so several products were reformulated with crystalline sucrose, often sourced from sugarcane and shown on packaging as 'cane sugar'. The trend was so acute that in 2010 the Corn Refiners Association petitioned the FDA to change the designation 'corn sugar' to be usable to refer to HFCS [1] (which was ultimately denied). But then in 2013, due to "consumer indifference", many mass-market products switched back to HFCS while sugar prices where high. So what gives? Has sugar crashed since then? [1] http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFSAN/CFSANFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm305226.htm http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFS... [2] http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/HFCS-free-The-trend-stalled-by-consumer-indifference http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Markets/HFCS-free-The-trend...
  - bfuller 10y ago
    I know USA grows a lot of beets for sugar
- ams6110 10y ago
  Cane/beet sugar is making a comeback, for some reason people seem to think it's healthier than HFCS.
  - feld 10y ago
    The body certainly handles fructose differently. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis
scurvy 10y ago
Brazil? I know that they grow a lot for their local ethanol gasoline blends. Not sure how much is for export though.
- ucaetano 10y ago
  Pretty much all of it. Production is private and producers switch from ethanol to sugar according to international sugar prices & local gas prices. India is also a large producer.
bitwize 10y ago
If cane sugar were introduced into the USA today, it would be classified as a Schedule I drug, being toxic and more addictive than cocaine. I wouldn't be surprised if the unpleasant discoveries surrounding sugar in recent years have substantially hurt the sugar business.

tricolon 10y ago

This article manages to spell the ship's name three ways: "Maku Pahu", "Mako Pahu", and "Moku Pahu". Only the last way is correct.

kaiku 10y ago
It isn't even a terribly difficult Hawaiian name, either!

TbobbyZ 10y ago

My grandfather owns a home in Maui. His opinion on the factory, even thought it brought jobs, it caused lots of pollution and only survived for so long because of government subsidies. If that is true, good riddance.

gthtjtkt 10y ago
Hawaii should be glad they're gone, sugar farms are destroying Florida. They fill lake Okeechobee with pollution, and then that pollution has to be drained periodically, destroying everything in its path and rendering beaches unusable for days or weeks at a time. This year, it was so bad that they declared a State of Emergency. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/us/florida-algae-pollution/ http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/us/florida-algae-pollution/ > "The algae outbreaks are triggered by fertilizer sewage and manure pollution that the state has failed to properly regulate. It's like adding miracle grow to the water and it triggers massive algae outbreaks,"
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Floridian here! The only lobby more powerful than the utilities is the sugar lobby.
emidln 10y ago
I visit my parents in Kihei every year. I certainly won't miss waking up to the smell of burning cane and "Maui Snow" aka black ash covering the entire downwind area in a thin layer. I can't imagine having asthma and living with that.
mark242 10y ago
Those cane fields on the way from Kahului to Kihei, while beautiful, seem like a massive wasted space. I like the idea of a decently-sized solar farm to replace the power plant just above Kihei.
- erickhill 10y ago
  I hope it doesn't get bulldozed for apartments and more strip malls, like near the airport right up the road.

creeble 10y ago

C&H produces 6 million pounds of sugar a day. I wonder where they get it from now?

Naritai 10y ago
I haven't found info about this company, but many countries from South & Central America, as well as Indonesia and the Philippines, are all major sugarcane exporters.
- knz 10y ago
  Australia as well.
geomark 10y ago
Top 3 sugar exporting countries by US$ volume in 2015 were Brazil, Thailand and India [1] [1] http://www.worldstopexports.com/sugar-exports-country/ http://www.worldstopexports.com/sugar-exports-country/

greenmountin 10y ago

TFA says the plantation took a $MM loss on their last sugar harvest, and intends to "diversify". According to another article about the company [0], this diversification is: """ • Energy crops: “HC&S has initiated crop trials to evaluate potential sources of feedstock for anaerobic conversion to biogas,” stated the company’s press release. The statement added that HC&S has entered into “preliminary, but confidential, discussions with other bioenergy industry players to explore additional crop-to-energy opportunities.” • Cattle: As noted above, HC&S is “working with Maui Cattle Company to conduct a grass-finishing pasture trial in 2016.” • Food crops: “A&B plans to establish an agriculture park on former sugar lands in order to provide opportunities for farmers to access these agricultural lands and support the cultivation of food crops on Maui.” Former company employees would get preference in leasing lots. """ [0] http://mauitime.com/news/business/as-the-sun-sets-on-maui-sugar-we-ask-what-the-closing-of-abs-plantation-means-for-us/ http://mauitime.com/news/business/as-the-sun-sets-on-maui-su...

komali2 10y ago
I'm coming in with very little knowledge of Hawaii, but having lived in Taiwan, beef was very expensive compared to back home in Texas because there isn't really any cattle industry on the mountainous island - it's all imported. Wondering if it's the same for Hawaii and thus they stand to make quite a bit of money selling locally? Or shipping to the relatively close Asian/Pacific Islands that also don't have cattle?
- dnautics 10y ago
  No. Pretty much the entire big island is a cattle ranch. However beef is expensive in Hawaii because due to state law, cattle must be sent out of state to the abbatoir before it hits your plate. Ranching on Maui probably seeks to take advantage of the infrastructure already available because of operations on the big island.
  - derekp7 10y ago
    Is there some advantage to laws such as this? If not, what would state lawmakers lose if they repealed this law? For their re-election, they could claim to have had a major positive economic impact by lowering food prices, that I'm sure the voting public would eat up.

musesum 10y ago

There has been a lot of interest in Breadfruit as a slow carb crop. A friend mentioned that demand exceeds current supply.

linksnapzz 10y ago
As I understand it, breadfruit trees produce seasonally, so that when they ripen, you've got a ton of breadfruit to deal with, and figure out how to preserve/freeze etc. And then, for the rest of the year, you have no breadfruit. I thought that was the barrier to its viability as a commercial crop. Anyway, I'm glad I got to see the fields of cane growing out of the bright red dirt on either side of the highway from Kahului to Wailea. I even made a wrong turn and ended up in the parking lot of that sugar plant-it was about the most industrial thing I saw on Maui.
- musesum 10y ago
  Hmmm, that's the first I've heard about limited season, maybe for a particular variety? There are so many kinds. Searching "breadfruit growing season" yields: https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/breadfruit.html https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/breadfruit.html I forwarded the OP to my friend from Global Manna. His opinion about the effects of cane on the Island biome were less fond.

rednerrus 10y ago

C&H has been violating the Clean Air Act since it was written. Thank god they're finally finished releasing tons of toxic chemicals into the air.

rwmurrayVT 10y ago

I believe the Maku Pahu will be headed to the scrap yard shortly. They had a recent availability for perspective bidders to shipcheck. The award has yet to be announced, and the rumour is they will cancel the project. No reason to repair a ship headed to a scrap yard.

sxcurry 10y ago

BTW, the gcaptain website is an ongoing source of interesting ship related news.

komali2 10y ago
For some reason that just strikes me as hilariously hacker-newsish. Every time I come here there's a thread full of niche experts fervently discussing yarn, clay tile roofs, or boats or whatever. "Check out this site, it's got cool boat news." Love it, love that it exists, love that people read it.

manachar 10y ago

From my perspective on Maui I think the fate of this factory shows a problem for any business. Had they modernized their equipment and methods years ago when profits were good, they very likely could have continued to operate at a profit and with the support of the community. Instead, they kept the field burning, the impossibly ancient mill equipment, and didn't adapt to the dropping price of the sugar to focus on more secondary goods like rum, organic sugar, etc. By the time they realized they'd either have to change or go out of business they were too ingrained to change and didn't have the profits to invest in changing anyways. It's a bittersweet change for Maui. The real fear is that all of this ag land will increasingly be converted to inefficient subdivisions as has happened on O'ahu and is happening at Maui Lani and up in Kula.

bradleyjg 10y ago
The real fear is that all of this ag land will increasingly be converted to inefficient subdivisions as has happened on O'ahu and is happening at Maui Lani and up in Kula. Inefficient in what sense? Edit: Thanks for the reply.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
  I imagine if you have lots of small, different plots, tilling it becomes less efficient. You need ways to move between plots, you have to leave space to the fence / side of the plot, you cannot drive straight for long distances.
- manachar 10y ago
  O'ahu has some of the worst traffic in the country hugely because of spread out neighborhoods/subdivisions rather than investing in density. We don't have enough land to build large enough highways, subdivisions, and the standard car-based strip-malls. I will admit, from a certain economic standpoint, ag land in Hawaii is much less efficient than low-density housing. I do believe that the negative externalities not included in that point of view should be considered (e.g. environmental cost, harm to the tourist industry, the ever nebulous quality of life, etc.). The economic pressures to build subdivisions are huge as the cost of housing is way out of proportion to the incomes of locals, but demand continues to outstrip supply and with as limited of land as we have, we're just not going to be able to ever reduce costs by trying to supply demand with subdivisions. Unfortunately, we also tend to pass laws limiting height and density and don't have enough mixed zoning areas.

jdonaldson 10y ago

The range of sentiment here runs from "good riddance" to "dire economic indicator". I used to be of the mind that food should fit under the standard economic principles of other markets (e.g., produce food where it's cheapest/best/most efficient). However, after seeing what happens during natural disasters/blights/global warming etc, I'm thinking that diversified food production is a national hedge, and wondering if government subsidies towards continuing local production is prudent here. I'm reminded of a documentary on Jamaica, and the effects of forced open trade agreements as part of IMF loan conditions : http://www.lifeanddebt.org/ http://www.lifeanddebt.org/ Clearly, Hawaii is not Jamaica wrt international trade, but it does have some of the same themes : 1. Open trade is not really fair, since subsidies are almost always involved for competing farms as well. 2. The loss of large amounts of easy low paying jobs can be devastating to local economies, which carries additional costs 3. Once gone, agricultural industry is difficult/impossible to restart (requiring large amounts of land, irrigation infrastructure, logistics, etc.)

smallnamespace 10y ago
Strongly agree -- resilience against catastrophe is an externality that the market general prices at $0, unless government intervenes. Simple example: we all benefit from not getting hit by asteroids, but good luck trying to build a profitable business based on that fact.
devsquid 10y ago
Also what do we do with all of that land, now that we aren't going to grow sugar cane or pineapples on it. I don't thing any of the islands can house many more people.

icu 10y ago

What a great example of the Aloha Spirit. Although I have long left my home state, it touches me deeply to know my fellow Hawaiians keep the Spirit alive.

zilchers 10y ago

The way they harvested the sugar involved burning the fields (I believe after harvest, but could be wrong) which lead to unusually high levels of respiratory illnesses on Maui - I think this is net-net good, but like the rest of the country, more areas of job growth are needed. Interestingly, Maui has one of the lowest levels of unemployment in the country at around 4% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4596502/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4596502/ https://www.google.com/search?q=hawaii+unemployment+rate https://www.google.com/search?q=hawaii+unemployment+rate