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The problem with that conclusion is that some of the highest-funded public schools in the country such as DC are among the worst performers. Funding is not the

by phd514 10y ago

The problem with that conclusion is that some of the highest-funded public schools in the country such as DC are among the worst performers. Funding is not the sole (or even most important) determinant of quality in education.

jschwartzi 10y ago
Do you have a breakdown for how much of DC schools funding makes it to the classroom and to teachers? It's my understanding that administrators soak up a huge amount of budget in many districts.
- hawkice 10y ago
  Administration does take a lot of money, but instruction is somewhere in the 35-53% range. That may sound low, but that's still quite a lot considering it buys only ~60% high school graduation rates -- worse than, for instance, Chile, which costs ~10x less to administer. Suffice it to say, the operation of these schools is inefficient in the extreme by any way I can measure it. That's why a relatively poor country like China can even generate headlines like this. But the problem persists across private schools, too, largely, so I think it's fair to say this is a tough problem to solve. http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba745 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba745 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-the-least-on-education-in-one-map/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-... http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/high-school-graduation-rates-tick-u-s-still-lags-developed-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/high-school-graduation-r... http://www.ascd.org/ASCD/images/publications/books/stewart2012_fig1.gif http://www.ascd.org/ASCD/images/publications/books/stewart20... http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Chile-EU_-_statistics_on_education#Educational_expenditure http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...
- aviator168 10y ago
  Don't about DC. In Long Island, New York State. Per student funding is $22K+. Our kids get very good educations.
miles7 10y ago
Some
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brownbat 10y ago
Sorry, wasn't clear. This conclusion isn't limited to funding. It doesn't necessarily mean that the high performing schools are high performing because they have a high tax base, that's just a correlation. Quality teachers may not be attracted to inner-city schools because of unstated biases, or because they prefer to live in other areas and have short commutes. Or maybe you have a safety issue due to a school's location or an aging building and high rents that diverts resources towards countermeasures or repairs. For whatever reason though, busing led to miraculously improved outcomes. Then we stopped doing it for some reason. Now, instead, we make some kids stay in schools where they have six hours of recess or lunch or study hall, then one session with a permanent math substitute with no lesson plans. So yeah, funding isn't everything--but some schools can't even afford teachers for every hour of the day, or roofs that aren't collapsing. If there is a minimum threshold not being met, funding's probably part of it. The better solution is to just not bar kids who want to learn from functioning schools.
- devinhelton 10y ago
  For whatever reason though, busing led to miraculously improved outcomes. This is asserted in episode 562, but no evidence was cited. I did a deep dive on this myself, reading numerous studies and various books, and in my opinion any link between integration and academic achievement is minimal at best. Read the two books by Raymond Wolters, and then compare with the American Life episodes, and make your own judgement about which side has the more accurate narrative.

by phd514 10y ago

jschwartzi 10y ago

Do you have a breakdown for how much of DC schools funding makes it to the classroom and to teachers? It's my understanding that administrators soak up a huge amount of budget in many districts.

hawkice 10y ago
Administration does take a lot of money, but instruction is somewhere in the 35-53% range. That may sound low, but that's still quite a lot considering it buys only ~60% high school graduation rates -- worse than, for instance, Chile, which costs ~10x less to administer. Suffice it to say, the operation of these schools is inefficient in the extreme by any way I can measure it. That's why a relatively poor country like China can even generate headlines like this. But the problem persists across private schools, too, largely, so I think it's fair to say this is a tough problem to solve. http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba745 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba745 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-states-that-spend-the-most-and-the-least-on-education-in-one-map/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/06/02/the-... http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/high-school-graduation-rates-tick-u-s-still-lags-developed-countries/ http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/high-school-graduation-r... http://www.ascd.org/ASCD/images/publications/books/stewart2012_fig1.gif http://www.ascd.org/ASCD/images/publications/books/stewart20... http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Chile-EU_-_statistics_on_education#Educational_expenditure http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...
aviator168 10y ago
Don't about DC. In Long Island, New York State. Per student funding is $22K+. Our kids get very good educations.

miles7 10y ago

Some

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

brownbat 10y ago

Sorry, wasn't clear. This conclusion isn't limited to funding. It doesn't necessarily mean that the high performing schools are high performing because they have a high tax base, that's just a correlation. Quality teachers may not be attracted to inner-city schools because of unstated biases, or because they prefer to live in other areas and have short commutes. Or maybe you have a safety issue due to a school's location or an aging building and high rents that diverts resources towards countermeasures or repairs. For whatever reason though, busing led to miraculously improved outcomes. Then we stopped doing it for some reason. Now, instead, we make some kids stay in schools where they have six hours of recess or lunch or study hall, then one session with a permanent math substitute with no lesson plans. So yeah, funding isn't everything--but some schools can't even afford teachers for every hour of the day, or roofs that aren't collapsing. If there is a minimum threshold not being met, funding's probably part of it. The better solution is to just not bar kids who want to learn from functioning schools.

devinhelton 10y ago
For whatever reason though, busing led to miraculously improved outcomes. This is asserted in episode 562, but no evidence was cited. I did a deep dive on this myself, reading numerous studies and various books, and in my opinion any link between integration and academic achievement is minimal at best. Read the two books by Raymond Wolters, and then compare with the American Life episodes, and make your own judgement about which side has the more accurate narrative.