4 ms·

I said that pro users made them rich, I didn't say that they had done it by buying stuff. Apple has been reaping rewards from the pro market for years. It's be

by d3ckard 10y ago

I said that pro users made them rich, I didn't say that they had done it by buying stuff. Apple has been reaping rewards from the pro market for years. It's been those pro users who have been advocating the platform among friends and family. It's been those pro users who have been the perfect subject for those marketing campaigns showing how awesome new products are. It's been those pro users who write tech blogs and make the noise about Apple. It's been those pro users who made the brand what it is. I'm not saying that pro users directly bring cash to Apple (they do that too - look at the number of computers IBM is buying and tell me it's not because of those pro users who made mac the ultimate development plaftorm). The point is, Apple was using the pro users as their market driver, creating positive buzz and actually telling people about the alternative (out of US Macs never been that popular). Also, basically any pro user is better for making an ad than normal user - normal users use stuff that's available in the browser everywhere. Pro market does not have to be the main one for Apple. It has probably never been. The problem is that with pro users you lose a ton of market influence and its going to happen. The proof is in the article - Tim Cook would not bother to comment on the subject unless it was actually important. And it is important. Apple was always about the ecosystem. If they break the ecosystem, they will fail. Right now it does not look to good for them in the long run.

adamlett 10y ago
If you believe pro users have that kind of clout, you are delusional. The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone. In fact the reaction from the pro market to those products when they were introduced, was one of dismissal ('No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame'). These products succeeded on their own merits by being fantastic products and -- to a lesser extend -- on the strength of Apple's brand and marketing. The halo effect from these two products is largely responsible for the success the Mac has enjoyed in recent history.
- greedo 10y ago
  I hardly believe that CmdrTaco's reaction on Slashdot to the iPod is indicative in any way of how the "pro market" responded to the iPod or iPhone.
  - adamlett 10y ago
    Oh, but it was! As far back as I have followed this stuff, every new hardware category Apple has introduced, has been met with ridicule and dismissal from the experts. Every time the same: It does nothing new. It's underpowered. It's overpriced. It's just a [whatever] in a fancy box. It doesn't even [insert specialised use case].
- charlesism 10y ago
  > If you believe pro users have that kind > of clout, you are delusional. Is it so strange? I have friends and relatives who ask me to recommend a computer. I'll bet you do, too. > The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because > it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone. Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product. It was Mac-only, and Mac-only at a time when the only people still using Macs were enthusiasts and pros. > In fact the reaction from the pro market to > those products when they were introduced, was one of > dismissal That seemed to me to be more of Microsoft vs Apple thing. The culture has changed these days, and people aren't as dogmatic about it. Back then Mac vs Windows was like a holy war. Back to present day, the effect of pro users isn't hard to see. Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill, and it's not the occasional think-piece, I see a new one every day (just read one on Bloomberg an hour ago). Heck, I read that Rush Limbaugh was trashing Apple last week. Not exactly a typical pro user. These views make it normal people, and don't make buying Apple products seem attractive.
  - adamlett 10y ago
    Is it so strange? No, not strange. Simply not true. Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product Who cares what kind of product the iPod "actually" was, when it was first launched? The point is that it went on to become the biggest consumer electronics hit and Apple's most successful product ever. And it had nothing to do with endorsements from pro users. Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill Are you new on the internet? Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always. That is not a new phenomenon. Meanwhile Apple has enjoyed success like no other company ever.
    - charlesism 10y ago
      > endorsements from pro users. I wouldn't use the word "endorsements" but I absolutely believe the approval pro users was vital. What technology journalist isn't a pro user at heart? There are some, like Mossberg, who try hard to write from the pov of the average user, but if you're writing about tech, you're generally a "power user" to say the least. The iPod wasn't just successful because it was a good product. It was also "cool" because it was high tech. We were just coming out of the beige box era, and standalone devices of any kind that connected to a computer were less common. It had particular cache. If pros hadn't considered Apple good technology, it would have spoiled that, and I doubt the iPod would have sold as well as it did. > Are you new on the internet? I am not. > Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always. There is a massive difference between the tone of the press this year, and previous years. By the time Steve left Apple, it was exceedingly rare for the big publications to write any negative stories about Apple. They were terrified to, because Apple would cut them off from events, etc. There were exceptions, like Gizmodo who had nothing to lose after the iPhone prototype story, but it wasn't like this year, where most stories are negative.
- graeme 10y ago
  I can count at least one imac, one macbook air and one iphone directly attributable to me. That's to my parents and a frugal friend who normally doesn't buy expensive things. In my parents' case I simply couldn't provide them tech support since I switched to mac. So they switched over. And then indirectly lots of clients and people in cafes have seen me using a mac, an iphone or an ipad. I'm sure that's contributed. And I doubt that's an unusual amount for the typical pro user.

by d3ckard 10y ago

adamlett 10y ago

If you believe pro users have that kind of clout, you are delusional. The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone. In fact the reaction from the pro market to those products when they were introduced, was one of dismissal ('No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame'). These products succeeded on their own merits by being fantastic products and -- to a lesser extend -- on the strength of Apple's brand and marketing. The halo effect from these two products is largely responsible for the success the Mac has enjoyed in recent history.

greedo 10y ago
I hardly believe that CmdrTaco's reaction on Slashdot to the iPod is indicative in any way of how the "pro market" responded to the iPod or iPhone.
- adamlett 10y ago
  Oh, but it was! As far back as I have followed this stuff, every new hardware category Apple has introduced, has been met with ridicule and dismissal from the experts. Every time the same: It does nothing new. It's underpowered. It's overpriced. It's just a [whatever] in a fancy box. It doesn't even [insert specialised use case].
charlesism 10y ago
> If you believe pro users have that kind > of clout, you are delusional. Is it so strange? I have friends and relatives who ask me to recommend a computer. I'll bet you do, too. > The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because > it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone. Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product. It was Mac-only, and Mac-only at a time when the only people still using Macs were enthusiasts and pros. > In fact the reaction from the pro market to > those products when they were introduced, was one of > dismissal That seemed to me to be more of Microsoft vs Apple thing. The culture has changed these days, and people aren't as dogmatic about it. Back then Mac vs Windows was like a holy war. Back to present day, the effect of pro users isn't hard to see. Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill, and it's not the occasional think-piece, I see a new one every day (just read one on Bloomberg an hour ago). Heck, I read that Rush Limbaugh was trashing Apple last week. Not exactly a typical pro user. These views make it normal people, and don't make buying Apple products seem attractive.
- adamlett 10y ago
  Is it so strange? No, not strange. Simply not true. Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product Who cares what kind of product the iPod "actually" was, when it was first launched? The point is that it went on to become the biggest consumer electronics hit and Apple's most successful product ever. And it had nothing to do with endorsements from pro users. Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill Are you new on the internet? Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always. That is not a new phenomenon. Meanwhile Apple has enjoyed success like no other company ever.
  - charlesism 10y ago
    > endorsements from pro users. I wouldn't use the word "endorsements" but I absolutely believe the approval pro users was vital. What technology journalist isn't a pro user at heart? There are some, like Mossberg, who try hard to write from the pov of the average user, but if you're writing about tech, you're generally a "power user" to say the least. The iPod wasn't just successful because it was a good product. It was also "cool" because it was high tech. We were just coming out of the beige box era, and standalone devices of any kind that connected to a computer were less common. It had particular cache. If pros hadn't considered Apple good technology, it would have spoiled that, and I doubt the iPod would have sold as well as it did. > Are you new on the internet? I am not. > Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always. There is a massive difference between the tone of the press this year, and previous years. By the time Steve left Apple, it was exceedingly rare for the big publications to write any negative stories about Apple. They were terrified to, because Apple would cut them off from events, etc. There were exceptions, like Gizmodo who had nothing to lose after the iPhone prototype story, but it wasn't like this year, where most stories are negative.
graeme 10y ago
I can count at least one imac, one macbook air and one iphone directly attributable to me. That's to my parents and a frugal friend who normally doesn't buy expensive things. In my parents' case I simply couldn't provide them tech support since I switched to mac. So they switched over. And then indirectly lots of clients and people in cafes have seen me using a mac, an iphone or an ipad. I'm sure that's contributed. And I doubt that's an unusual amount for the typical pro user.