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One of the great things about C++ is that it weeds out the shitty developers. Not that there isn't plenty of shitty C++ code out there. There's just not a lot

One of the great things about C++ is that it weeds out the shitty developers. Not that there isn't plenty of shitty C++ code out there. There's just not a lot of C++ code out there that's both shitty and kind of works. If you don't do C++ right it will fail spectacularly. Poorly written software in languages like Java, Go, Python, etc. can hobble along miserably for decades because when it's broke it probably still kind of works event if it's slow and constantly spits stack traces. A C++ program has to be beautiful or it probably wont last long.

pjmlp 10y ago
I imagine you are yet to enjoy the wonders of outsourcing and offshoring C++ code.
kibwen 10y ago
I don't think that this argument proves the initial assertion that C++ "weeds out the shitty developers". Shitty code doesn't just appear out of thin air, and god knows I've both read and written some shitty code (including shitty C++ code) in my day. Shitty C++ code survives exactly the same way that shitty code survives in all languages: by piling ill-considered hack upon ill-considered hack until your boss stops complaining.
MaulingMonkey 10y ago
> There's just not a lot of C++ code out there that's both shitty and kind of works. I promise you, there is. That you've managed to avoid it earns you my envy, although not my agreement. Raymond Chen sometimes blogs about all the weird historical niggles and backwards compatibility hacks that lace the Win32 API because of, ultimately, shitty C++ code. I've seen similar, or even worse. And yet, I've got absolutely nothing to complain about compared to some of the horror stories I've heard from other devs and the codebases they work on.
fithisux 10y ago
I am a shitty developer, but as a researcher, I have common sense and my BS radar shows a very big signal at C++ direction. When I see problematic C++ I do not start blaming the developers. Part of the problem is the developer and the other part ~ 50% is the language. Since I am a shitty developer and a coward, I would never do C++ buddy jumping again. Last time I pissed my underwear. The others, who didn't back-off, destroyed a 200.000 EU research program fixing bugs, refactoring and seeking the holy Grail of low-level performance instead of doing meaningful research and improving algorithmic complexity.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  Thank you for admitting it and knowing your limitations. The world could be saved a lot of time and money if more people followed your example. However, as with any challenging skill in life, you have to be shitty at C++ before you can hope to be good at it. We need some brave souls to attempt to become good programmers otherwise we won't have any. The biggest problem with software today is all the shitty programmers out there who are employed as if they were good at it. C++ helps weed those programmers out because it's very difficult to be at all productive in that language of you're shitty.
p0nce 10y ago
> A C++ program has to be beautiful or it probably wont last long. You can't be serious. A C++ program has difficulty being beautiful because changing anything takes lots of time to compile. C++ subtly trains your brain not to ever change anything. Beautiful C++ code does exist though, and is often the output of a single developer.
- jcoffland 10y ago
  Producing non-shitty C++ code with multiple developers is exceptionally hard since all your developers have to be good. Of course that's true for any language.

pjmlp 10y ago

I imagine you are yet to enjoy the wonders of outsourcing and offshoring C++ code.

kibwen 10y ago

I don't think that this argument proves the initial assertion that C++ "weeds out the shitty developers". Shitty code doesn't just appear out of thin air, and god knows I've both read and written some shitty code (including shitty C++ code) in my day. Shitty C++ code survives exactly the same way that shitty code survives in all languages: by piling ill-considered hack upon ill-considered hack until your boss stops complaining.

MaulingMonkey 10y ago

> There's just not a lot of C++ code out there that's both shitty and kind of works. I promise you, there is. That you've managed to avoid it earns you my envy, although not my agreement. Raymond Chen sometimes blogs about all the weird historical niggles and backwards compatibility hacks that lace the Win32 API because of, ultimately, shitty C++ code. I've seen similar, or even worse. And yet, I've got absolutely nothing to complain about compared to some of the horror stories I've heard from other devs and the codebases they work on.

fithisux 10y ago

I am a shitty developer, but as a researcher, I have common sense and my BS radar shows a very big signal at C++ direction. When I see problematic C++ I do not start blaming the developers. Part of the problem is the developer and the other part ~ 50% is the language. Since I am a shitty developer and a coward, I would never do C++ buddy jumping again. Last time I pissed my underwear. The others, who didn't back-off, destroyed a 200.000 EU research program fixing bugs, refactoring and seeking the holy Grail of low-level performance instead of doing meaningful research and improving algorithmic complexity.

jcoffland 10y ago
Thank you for admitting it and knowing your limitations. The world could be saved a lot of time and money if more people followed your example. However, as with any challenging skill in life, you have to be shitty at C++ before you can hope to be good at it. We need some brave souls to attempt to become good programmers otherwise we won't have any. The biggest problem with software today is all the shitty programmers out there who are employed as if they were good at it. C++ helps weed those programmers out because it's very difficult to be at all productive in that language of you're shitty.

p0nce 10y ago

> A C++ program has to be beautiful or it probably wont last long. You can't be serious. A C++ program has difficulty being beautiful because changing anything takes lots of time to compile. C++ subtly trains your brain not to ever change anything. Beautiful C++ code does exist though, and is often the output of a single developer.

jcoffland 10y ago
Producing non-shitty C++ code with multiple developers is exceptionally hard since all your developers have to be good. Of course that's true for any language.