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Rust: Promotes itself to be better C but its simply a more complex language design. huh? Rust tries to solve the real problem of shooting yourself in the foot

Rust: Promotes itself to be better C but its simply a more complex language design. huh? Rust tries to solve the real problem of shooting yourself in the foot in C without compromising on being as close as possible to bare metal. D is C++ but improved/simplified. Its not to hard to get into, its more easy for anybody from a C background. The main virtue of C++ is its vast legacy base that needs to be maintained. Replacing C++ with D can't possibly be for the reason of being "improved/simplified". Take it from a guy that spend a large part of his life in PHP. This explains a lot of the statements in the publication.

kibwen 10y ago
> This explains a lot of the statements in the publication. I hope we can avoid offhand judgments like this. As for the OP, and leaving aside the parts discussing other languages, this is a useful document for those outside the D community for summarizing some issues that may be apparent mostly to insiders. However, I think the author underestimates the amount of effort that it takes to develop and polish a complete and modern-feeling language/library/tooling ecosystem, especially for projects dependent on volunteer contributions (rare are the volunteers who sign up for grunt work, however essential that grunt work may be).
- qznc 10y ago
  > this is a useful document for those outside the D community for summarizing some issues that may be apparent mostly to insiders That is my fear. Some of the issues raised are non-issues, but as an outsider you cannot distinguish them. I envy Rust. Grunt work and PR seems go much smoother over there.
ivanhoe 10y ago
> Replacing C++ with D can't possibly be for the reason of being "improved/simplified". Author says exactly the same, don't try to replace C++, offer an alternative to C-like scripting languages. > This explains a lot of the statements in the publication. Is it really that easy for you to generalize about thousands of people all round the world? I know quite a few excellent engineers in my home town with background in various other languages (me included) who also happen to work mainly in php because when you live outside US it's much easier to find a well paid remote jobs in php then for instance in C++. Are we all ignorant fools not entitled to have an opinion on other languages because of it?
- ognyankulev 10y ago
  What I meant by the PHP remark is that the publication is from the point of view of D as (making it the best?) scripting language. In this case, why C/C++/Rust are there at all? These are system-level languages that have very different priorities than scripting-level languages.
  - ivanhoe 10y ago
    That's true, I guess he was making a comparison why D should focus more on a scripting lang community. Which btw I don't really agree with, in my opinion D is pretty nice all-around language, don't see why limit it on a single niche.
simfoo 10y ago
> Rust: Promotes itself to be better C but its simply a more complex language design. >> huh? Rust tries to solve the real problem of shooting yourself in the foot in C without compromising on being as close as possible to bare metal. By having a more complex language design. You can't deny that lifetimes and the borrow checker make Rust a much more complex language than C
- adrianN 10y ago
  In C you have to care about lifetimes and borrows as well, it's just that the compiler doesn't help you with it.
- baq 10y ago
  It's not like a simpler language makes use after free (a basic lifetime example) go away.
  - thedeemon 10y ago
    A simpler language with a GC makes it go away.
zamalek 10y ago
> Rust [...] C++ [...] PHP D is a great language, I don't see why other languages are attacked in nearly every post about D. Spend time talking about D as though it existed in a vacuum, spend some time planning in that fashion too. D started off as C+++, but it is its own beast now. > [Post] Editor support My first Go PR happened after the fantastic Go VSCode support dropped - even some of the Google gophers are using it now. Prior to VSCode support, I found Go unapproachable. Vim and Emacs support is all good and well, but not everyone uses that and "you should be" is a non-sequitur.

kibwen 10y ago

> This explains a lot of the statements in the publication. I hope we can avoid offhand judgments like this. As for the OP, and leaving aside the parts discussing other languages, this is a useful document for those outside the D community for summarizing some issues that may be apparent mostly to insiders. However, I think the author underestimates the amount of effort that it takes to develop and polish a complete and modern-feeling language/library/tooling ecosystem, especially for projects dependent on volunteer contributions (rare are the volunteers who sign up for grunt work, however essential that grunt work may be).

qznc 10y ago
> this is a useful document for those outside the D community for summarizing some issues that may be apparent mostly to insiders That is my fear. Some of the issues raised are non-issues, but as an outsider you cannot distinguish them. I envy Rust. Grunt work and PR seems go much smoother over there.

ivanhoe 10y ago

> Replacing C++ with D can't possibly be for the reason of being "improved/simplified". Author says exactly the same, don't try to replace C++, offer an alternative to C-like scripting languages. > This explains a lot of the statements in the publication. Is it really that easy for you to generalize about thousands of people all round the world? I know quite a few excellent engineers in my home town with background in various other languages (me included) who also happen to work mainly in php because when you live outside US it's much easier to find a well paid remote jobs in php then for instance in C++. Are we all ignorant fools not entitled to have an opinion on other languages because of it?

ognyankulev 10y ago
What I meant by the PHP remark is that the publication is from the point of view of D as (making it the best?) scripting language. In this case, why C/C++/Rust are there at all? These are system-level languages that have very different priorities than scripting-level languages.
- ivanhoe 10y ago
  That's true, I guess he was making a comparison why D should focus more on a scripting lang community. Which btw I don't really agree with, in my opinion D is pretty nice all-around language, don't see why limit it on a single niche.

simfoo 10y ago

> Rust: Promotes itself to be better C but its simply a more complex language design. >> huh? Rust tries to solve the real problem of shooting yourself in the foot in C without compromising on being as close as possible to bare metal. By having a more complex language design. You can't deny that lifetimes and the borrow checker make Rust a much more complex language than C

adrianN 10y ago
In C you have to care about lifetimes and borrows as well, it's just that the compiler doesn't help you with it.
baq 10y ago
It's not like a simpler language makes use after free (a basic lifetime example) go away.
- thedeemon 10y ago
  A simpler language with a GC makes it go away.

zamalek 10y ago

> Rust [...] C++ [...] PHP D is a great language, I don't see why other languages are attacked in nearly every post about D. Spend time talking about D as though it existed in a vacuum, spend some time planning in that fashion too. D started off as C+++, but it is its own beast now. > [Post] Editor support My first Go PR happened after the fantastic Go VSCode support dropped - even some of the Google gophers are using it now. Prior to VSCode support, I found Go unapproachable. Vim and Emacs support is all good and well, but not everyone uses that and "you should be" is a non-sequitur.