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There was a fascinating discussion about Greece on HN about a month ago. Based on what some Greek posters were saying, it seemed like the Government has effect

by nugget 10y ago

There was a fascinating discussion about Greece on HN about a month ago. Based on what some Greek posters were saying, it seemed like the Government has effectively nationalized the housing market by raising property taxes to 5-6% (through purposefully inflated appraisals). If you're a Government in desperate need of revenue then it makes sense, as land and houses are the only assets you can't move out of the country. That may be the endgame for many of these heavily indebted cities, states and countries.

hiram112 10y ago
Honestly, this has been one of the reasons I've chosen to avoid buying a home even though I could easily afford it now. Seems like, besides lack of mobility in a era of never stable employers, owning a home essentially weds you to your locality's debts - unfunded bonds, pensions, etc. You can already see how cities with the biggest problems - Chicago, Detroit - are already cracking. They went for the easy things first: traffic cameras, cigarette taxes, huge tourist taxes on rental cars and hotels. But eventually they'll come after the biggest cash cow which is property taxes.
- mercer 10y ago
  > But eventually they'll come after the biggest cash cow which is property taxes. I sure hope so. Actually, scratch that, I'm not sure. It might affect people that I don't want it to affect. It's probably complicated (so by all means enlighten me). I'm all for someone buying a house and being able to keep it and live in it. But what bothers me to no end is that every single house I've lived in, renting a room for pretty steep prices what with wanting to live in a city, involved a landlord who made a good deal of money on me and my fellow renters, and for no reason other than buying or renting the house a long time ago when it was still cheap. My previous landlord made a profit on the rent-controlled apartment he snagged a decade or so ago. While the rent is a significant portion of our income, he makes a profit and gets to kick us out (in a friendly way) once he wants it back. The fact that this guy was a major squatter back in the day only makes this more frustrating. My current landlord does fuck-all and has some kind of disability that has kept him from working for a while. I'm pretty sure that the rent I pay at the very least pays his mortgage, and perhaps even leaves him with some profit, all because he's older and he got there first. Meanwhile I, in my early thirties, am paying a significant sum just to be able to live in 'the city'. I'm happy he's got a place, don't get me wrong, and I can afford it. But it feels more than a a little unfair to see my younger siblings and friends struggle to pay rent when he's got a whole apartment all for himself for no particular reason other than 'times changed'. I could go on and involve my 'Boomer' grandparents who are throwing all their money at improving their home in bum-fuck nowhere that none of their offspring will ever care about, while they've got kids and grandkids who could really use a bit of money, but I'll leave it at this. It reminds me of 'We Suck Young Blood' by Radiohead, and while I suppose that's what we get in a society that emphasizes the individual over the collective, it still sucks, and quite frankly I feel no remorse over never visiting my grandparents once they're in a home and waiting to die. Let them die alone and unsatisfied with their fancy house. (okay, I'm exaggerating. I'll visit them and I do care for them. But man does this stuff bother me!)
TheCoelacanth 10y ago
It seems like that would be unsustainable since that would kill off construction of new housing. It would be more sustainable to do it only for the land, but not the buildings themselves.
- nugget 10y ago
  Sometimes systems have to crash before they can reboot - part of the normal life cycle and trying to prevent pain can end up making it worse.

by nugget 10y ago

hiram112 10y ago

Honestly, this has been one of the reasons I've chosen to avoid buying a home even though I could easily afford it now. Seems like, besides lack of mobility in a era of never stable employers, owning a home essentially weds you to your locality's debts - unfunded bonds, pensions, etc. You can already see how cities with the biggest problems - Chicago, Detroit - are already cracking. They went for the easy things first: traffic cameras, cigarette taxes, huge tourist taxes on rental cars and hotels. But eventually they'll come after the biggest cash cow which is property taxes.

mercer 10y ago
> But eventually they'll come after the biggest cash cow which is property taxes. I sure hope so. Actually, scratch that, I'm not sure. It might affect people that I don't want it to affect. It's probably complicated (so by all means enlighten me). I'm all for someone buying a house and being able to keep it and live in it. But what bothers me to no end is that every single house I've lived in, renting a room for pretty steep prices what with wanting to live in a city, involved a landlord who made a good deal of money on me and my fellow renters, and for no reason other than buying or renting the house a long time ago when it was still cheap. My previous landlord made a profit on the rent-controlled apartment he snagged a decade or so ago. While the rent is a significant portion of our income, he makes a profit and gets to kick us out (in a friendly way) once he wants it back. The fact that this guy was a major squatter back in the day only makes this more frustrating. My current landlord does fuck-all and has some kind of disability that has kept him from working for a while. I'm pretty sure that the rent I pay at the very least pays his mortgage, and perhaps even leaves him with some profit, all because he's older and he got there first. Meanwhile I, in my early thirties, am paying a significant sum just to be able to live in 'the city'. I'm happy he's got a place, don't get me wrong, and I can afford it. But it feels more than a a little unfair to see my younger siblings and friends struggle to pay rent when he's got a whole apartment all for himself for no particular reason other than 'times changed'. I could go on and involve my 'Boomer' grandparents who are throwing all their money at improving their home in bum-fuck nowhere that none of their offspring will ever care about, while they've got kids and grandkids who could really use a bit of money, but I'll leave it at this. It reminds me of 'We Suck Young Blood' by Radiohead, and while I suppose that's what we get in a society that emphasizes the individual over the collective, it still sucks, and quite frankly I feel no remorse over never visiting my grandparents once they're in a home and waiting to die. Let them die alone and unsatisfied with their fancy house. (okay, I'm exaggerating. I'll visit them and I do care for them. But man does this stuff bother me!)

TheCoelacanth 10y ago

It seems like that would be unsustainable since that would kill off construction of new housing. It would be more sustainable to do it only for the land, but not the buildings themselves.

nugget 10y ago
Sometimes systems have to crash before they can reboot - part of the normal life cycle and trying to prevent pain can end up making it worse.