8 ms·

Ask HN: How is the status of remote working in Europe?

29 points by bontoJR 10y ago

tetek 10y ago
Not sure what are you asking. Could you be more precise?
mrcold 10y ago
In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out. The socialist mindset created retarded managers. So anything deviating from the standard factory setup is seen as depravity. Europeans don't understand technology. For them software development is like manual labor. Get some monkeys, throw them some peanuts and use a whip to make them do stuff. Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.
- Traubenfuchs 10y ago
  I agree. Large companies sometimes have regulations around (limited) home working, but those who do it are looked at with suspicion from everyone else and only the very senior seniors dare to use it.
- joojia 10y ago
  So true
- id122015 10y ago
  If I was born in Europe, who should I work for ? Should I move to UK, US, Australia ?
  - ddorian43 10y ago
    Depends on what you want. US usually has the highest $. You can also remote to get as much $ and as few costs.
  - ionised 10y ago
    Iceland
  - helengrin 10y ago
    I want to move to Sydney next year. I visited Australia 2 times last year ( I booked cheap tickets here https://au.lowcost.club/ https://au.lowcost.club/) and I'm fond of this country. Now I'm preparing all required docs for that purpose.
- pvaldes 10y ago
  > Europeans work like a slave all day Except in holidays > The socialist mindset created retarded managers Not all the retarded managers are socialists, and not all managers are retarded. Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet? > Europeans don't understand technology Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet. Congratulations to USA for ranking again in the second place after China.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet. Congratulations for not understanding the concept of "per capita".
  - mrcold 10y ago
    'Except in holidays' > Nice straw man. All day doesn't mean every day. 'Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet?' > Yes, I live in Europe. 'Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet' > You are very good at building these straw men. Not sure what understanding technology has to do with pollution.
- andyy 10y ago
  That's weird thing to say, I guess no replies from guys in UK (London & rest of the country). It's similar for Netherlands and I know (from my experience) in Germany (Berlin). 'In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out.' > again not sure which countries you speak about (ukraine or romania lol?), maybe it's like that in some, but some have very relaxed attitude 'Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' > again, there're tons of EU based remote work, and I just won't comment on the rest of this generalisation. I've got a nice remote offers from Spain and Netherlands as we, despite being in UK. I'm getting them all the time. So just to top the thing about working like a slave all day... - my EU company gives me remote because I do work better in this mode, - my EU company gives me a lot of benefits that guys in US don't see (despite that average salary I'd say is lower in here), - basically it's yet another EU company that hires me and gives me total freedom because I deliver i.e. if you're good you will always find a remote job with conditions you want. btw. your comment shows your ignorance and nothing more (and a lack of ability to produce some facts instead of meaningless offences) 'EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' - seriously? you work for some1 or you're building your own 'empire' with this kind of attitude and beliefs? Overall, your post is full of bs.
  - ddorian43 10y ago
    What benefits does the EU company give you more beside more free days compared to US ?
    - andyy 10y ago
      I'll just mention one thing, maybe that's not important for you - US maternity law, come on... it's a joke ;) all of this stuff is way in favour in most countries of Europe. btw. I like my free days, I like a lot the extra ones (not the ones that companies are obligated to) if you work for good company. time is precious so a lot of companies are very flexible, in here it's nothing new & nothing uncommon to do 4 days instead 5 etc. or change any day with any weekend day if you please.
      - 10y ago
- BjoernKW 10y ago
  Are you talking from experience or just out of your arse? I know plenty of EU software companies and while there is certainly some variation none of them is like the cliché you're painting. It's like saying every US software company is like 70s / 80s era IBM (which used to be pretty much like what you're describing).
- ionised 10y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb and say you just have a terrible personal experience with shitty jobs. My current (UK) company is great to work for.
  - mrcold 10y ago
    That's anecdotal. My current company is great too. That doesn't mean all the companies in my country are great.
    - ionised 10y ago
      Exactly, it doesn't mean they are all shite either. I'm willing to accept that many are though, but that's no different anywhere you go.
- dagw 10y ago
  WTF? Admittedly I've only worked in Scandinavia, but that doesn't sound right at all. Every job I've worked at (from small startups to multinational engineering firms) has been extremely flexible when it comes to working hours and taking time off and I've never seen a manager come even halfway close to to being anywhere near as bad as the stories I hear about American managers here on HN.
  - mrcold 10y ago
    Sounds pretty accurate for a business-oriented role. Didn't have the same experience in the engineering teams. Maybe I found only shitty companies. Maybe it's just the role itself. For example, everybody says "there are better companies out there". But all of them seem to be the same. And it's more of a gamble on the position. Find a good team and the company is great. Find a bad team in the same company and the company sucks. Maybe you got lucky and I didn't. Hence the different perspectives.
    - dagw 10y ago
      Obviously all companies are different, and perhaps the best companies in the US treat their best workers better than the best companies in Europe. But equally all the working condition horror stories I've heard from the US completely dwarf anything I've ever seen or heard of in Europe.
tjansen 10y ago
(Germany) In smaller companies it's certainly possible to arrange it - not sure how common it is. In larger companies, this is very unusual and usually not even considered, except for contractors. There are a million of workplace laws and regulations that are hard to apply for someone who's working from home. E.g. I have heard from people working at home that their desk and chair needed to be inspected to make sure it is compliant (ergonomics etc).
a-saleh 10y ago
(Czech republic) - in my peer-group, fully remote work is rare, but not unheard-off (for past two years I have worked with colleague who was fully remote, even though he lives in the same country, and we are about to hire another one. Both of them were hired as senior engineers) What is really common, is reasonably generous attitude towards working from home. Few of my colleagues have arrangement with my manager that they can work from home indefinitely and basically come to office only when they feel like it, because of ~1h long commute from one part of the city to the other. Company policy is 1xWFH/week.
Zelmor 10y ago
Linux software tester reporting in from Eastern EU. I am fully remote and would not have it any other way. My client company (I'm a subcontractor) is located in the same county so it's not like I work overboard. This is pretty standard for some companies, and completely alien to others. Look for the former ones and ask during interviews.
Heraclite 10y ago
Unfortunately we're not there yet. It's doable if you negociate it with your local small-midsized company.
pyb 10y ago
In the UK, I've noticed remote working has become more and more common, particularly in the last 2 or 3 years. Not only are there more distributed companies, but commutes in the London area are quite long as people have to live far out. So yes, it's happening. I say this as someone who generally prefers to work onsite...
- gt2 10y ago
  What hourly rate range have you been seeing?
wayn3 10y ago
Absolute shit. Its easier to get a contract from a US firm working from europe than it is to actually work remote in europe for a european company. Besides, the pay is shit. European companies think 40k is a great salary for an engineer. Better rates to be had in murica. much better. 3-4x+ better.
- zerr 10y ago
  How easy it was to get US clients? In my experience, Americans are afraid of dealing with people from "overseas". I did have a couple of US clients though.
  - wayn3 10y ago
    well, its simple. Step 1: Don't call yourself a freelancer. Freelancers are the idiots who get paid after the fact, can't speak proper english and have to deal with money-conscious clients who think $5000 is a lot of cash. If you do contract work, you are a CONSULTANT. You CONSULT. The word implies you know more about what you're doing than your client. Words are powerful. Step 2: Have a skillset that is in demand. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Get Rich
    - zerr 10y ago
      Yes, I'm consulting, for European clients mostly.
gt2 10y ago
I know several people working remotely for European companies. They do complain that the pay is less, but that's probably not related to being remote.

29 points by bontoJR 10y ago

tetek 10y ago

Not sure what are you asking. Could you be more precise?

In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out. The socialist mindset created retarded managers. So anything deviating from the standard factory setup is seen as depravity. Europeans don't understand technology. For them software development is like manual labor. Get some monkeys, throw them some peanuts and use a whip to make them do stuff. Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.

Traubenfuchs 10y ago
I agree. Large companies sometimes have regulations around (limited) home working, but those who do it are looked at with suspicion from everyone else and only the very senior seniors dare to use it.
joojia 10y ago
So true
id122015 10y ago
If I was born in Europe, who should I work for ? Should I move to UK, US, Australia ?
- ddorian43 10y ago
  Depends on what you want. US usually has the highest $. You can also remote to get as much $ and as few costs.
- ionised 10y ago
  Iceland
- helengrin 10y ago
  I want to move to Sydney next year. I visited Australia 2 times last year ( I booked cheap tickets here https://au.lowcost.club/ https://au.lowcost.club/) and I'm fond of this country. Now I'm preparing all required docs for that purpose.
pvaldes 10y ago
> Europeans work like a slave all day Except in holidays > The socialist mindset created retarded managers Not all the retarded managers are socialists, and not all managers are retarded. Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet? > Europeans don't understand technology Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet. Congratulations to USA for ranking again in the second place after China.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet. Congratulations for not understanding the concept of "per capita".
- mrcold 10y ago
  'Except in holidays' > Nice straw man. All day doesn't mean every day. 'Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet?' > Yes, I live in Europe. 'Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet' > You are very good at building these straw men. Not sure what understanding technology has to do with pollution.
andyy 10y ago
That's weird thing to say, I guess no replies from guys in UK (London & rest of the country). It's similar for Netherlands and I know (from my experience) in Germany (Berlin). 'In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out.' > again not sure which countries you speak about (ukraine or romania lol?), maybe it's like that in some, but some have very relaxed attitude 'Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' > again, there're tons of EU based remote work, and I just won't comment on the rest of this generalisation. I've got a nice remote offers from Spain and Netherlands as we, despite being in UK. I'm getting them all the time. So just to top the thing about working like a slave all day... - my EU company gives me remote because I do work better in this mode, - my EU company gives me a lot of benefits that guys in US don't see (despite that average salary I'd say is lower in here), - basically it's yet another EU company that hires me and gives me total freedom because I deliver i.e. if you're good you will always find a remote job with conditions you want. btw. your comment shows your ignorance and nothing more (and a lack of ability to produce some facts instead of meaningless offences) 'EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' - seriously? you work for some1 or you're building your own 'empire' with this kind of attitude and beliefs? Overall, your post is full of bs.
- ddorian43 10y ago
  What benefits does the EU company give you more beside more free days compared to US ?
  - andyy 10y ago
    I'll just mention one thing, maybe that's not important for you - US maternity law, come on... it's a joke ;) all of this stuff is way in favour in most countries of Europe. btw. I like my free days, I like a lot the extra ones (not the ones that companies are obligated to) if you work for good company. time is precious so a lot of companies are very flexible, in here it's nothing new & nothing uncommon to do 4 days instead 5 etc. or change any day with any weekend day if you please.
    - 10y ago
BjoernKW 10y ago
Are you talking from experience or just out of your arse? I know plenty of EU software companies and while there is certainly some variation none of them is like the cliché you're painting. It's like saying every US software company is like 70s / 80s era IBM (which used to be pretty much like what you're describing).
ionised 10y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you just have a terrible personal experience with shitty jobs. My current (UK) company is great to work for.
- mrcold 10y ago
  That's anecdotal. My current company is great too. That doesn't mean all the companies in my country are great.
  - ionised 10y ago
    Exactly, it doesn't mean they are all shite either. I'm willing to accept that many are though, but that's no different anywhere you go.
dagw 10y ago
WTF? Admittedly I've only worked in Scandinavia, but that doesn't sound right at all. Every job I've worked at (from small startups to multinational engineering firms) has been extremely flexible when it comes to working hours and taking time off and I've never seen a manager come even halfway close to to being anywhere near as bad as the stories I hear about American managers here on HN.
- mrcold 10y ago
  Sounds pretty accurate for a business-oriented role. Didn't have the same experience in the engineering teams. Maybe I found only shitty companies. Maybe it's just the role itself. For example, everybody says "there are better companies out there". But all of them seem to be the same. And it's more of a gamble on the position. Find a good team and the company is great. Find a bad team in the same company and the company sucks. Maybe you got lucky and I didn't. Hence the different perspectives.
  - dagw 10y ago
    Obviously all companies are different, and perhaps the best companies in the US treat their best workers better than the best companies in Europe. But equally all the working condition horror stories I've heard from the US completely dwarf anything I've ever seen or heard of in Europe.

tjansen 10y ago

(Germany) In smaller companies it's certainly possible to arrange it - not sure how common it is. In larger companies, this is very unusual and usually not even considered, except for contractors. There are a million of workplace laws and regulations that are hard to apply for someone who's working from home. E.g. I have heard from people working at home that their desk and chair needed to be inspected to make sure it is compliant (ergonomics etc).

a-saleh 10y ago

(Czech republic) - in my peer-group, fully remote work is rare, but not unheard-off (for past two years I have worked with colleague who was fully remote, even though he lives in the same country, and we are about to hire another one. Both of them were hired as senior engineers) What is really common, is reasonably generous attitude towards working from home. Few of my colleagues have arrangement with my manager that they can work from home indefinitely and basically come to office only when they feel like it, because of ~1h long commute from one part of the city to the other. Company policy is 1xWFH/week.

Zelmor 10y ago

Linux software tester reporting in from Eastern EU. I am fully remote and would not have it any other way. My client company (I'm a subcontractor) is located in the same county so it's not like I work overboard. This is pretty standard for some companies, and completely alien to others. Look for the former ones and ask during interviews.

Heraclite 10y ago

Unfortunately we're not there yet. It's doable if you negociate it with your local small-midsized company.

pyb 10y ago

In the UK, I've noticed remote working has become more and more common, particularly in the last 2 or 3 years. Not only are there more distributed companies, but commutes in the London area are quite long as people have to live far out. So yes, it's happening. I say this as someone who generally prefers to work onsite...

gt2 10y ago
What hourly rate range have you been seeing?

wayn3 10y ago

Absolute shit. Its easier to get a contract from a US firm working from europe than it is to actually work remote in europe for a european company. Besides, the pay is shit. European companies think 40k is a great salary for an engineer. Better rates to be had in murica. much better. 3-4x+ better.

zerr 10y ago
How easy it was to get US clients? In my experience, Americans are afraid of dealing with people from "overseas". I did have a couple of US clients though.
- wayn3 10y ago
  well, its simple. Step 1: Don't call yourself a freelancer. Freelancers are the idiots who get paid after the fact, can't speak proper english and have to deal with money-conscious clients who think $5000 is a lot of cash. If you do contract work, you are a CONSULTANT. You CONSULT. The word implies you know more about what you're doing than your client. Words are powerful. Step 2: Have a skillset that is in demand. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Get Rich
  - zerr 10y ago
    Yes, I'm consulting, for European clients mostly.

gt2 10y ago

I know several people working remotely for European companies. They do complain that the pay is less, but that's probably not related to being remote.