5 ms·

Rail Crossing Warnings Are Sought for Mapping Apps

24 points by dankohn1 10y ago

Aloha 10y ago
I fear for the generation of drivers who never learned how to navigate without some App or GPS. By using voice announced turn-by-turn directions, you loose a certain amount of situational awareness, this situational awareness is critical to preventing all sorts of troubles while on the road.
- tombrossman 10y ago
  I have found that when I use a GPS navigation device, it is only a secondary reference that I rarely look directly at. I also disable all audio output. I find them very useful for navigating through an unfamiliar area, but I mostly see the screen in my peripheral vision because I'm paying more attention to the road and signs, etc. I can see when a turn is coming up because the brightly colored line indicating my path on the screen bends, and I complete the turn having never looked directly at the device. I do look at it occasionally when going straight to have a sense of the next road name, distance until next turn, etc. Try this if you haven't already, because I found looking at the device too often was disorienting (especially in traffic circles or complex intersections) because the display lags slightly behind your actual position. You are absolutely right about situational awareness though. That's always top priority and any device that interferes with it should be disabled or repositioned in your field of vision.
- rplst8 10y ago
  Agree. Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn, and they will take extraordinary measures not to do so. If one misses a turn, too bad. Re-route. The number one concern of a driver on the road should not be getting to their destination - it should be operating the vehicle in a safe manner.
  - pcora 10y ago
    It seems that more and more, people just ignore everything in transit to make that turn. Even if it means crossing a 4 lane road to turn left or right in less than 30m..
  - drunken-serval 10y ago
    > Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn This is not a new problem.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    Which is odd, because one of my primary uses of GPS is simply so that when I do miss my turn, it doesn't matter ("Rerouting..."). It's when I'm relying on memory or a paper map that missing a turn becomes an issue. I'll cross four lanes of traffic to make that turn because I don't have a readily-accessible Plan B.
- Finnucane 10y ago
  Yeah, I guess I am old, too. If I have to drive somewhere unfamiliar, I look it up and figure out how I'm going to get there before I leave the house. And this doesn't really happen that often; 98 percent of the places I drive to, I know how to get there.
  - Aloha 10y ago
    I have many friends who cant even find their own house without GPS. It's somewhat disturbing
bipson 10y ago
I think we need to ensure people pay attention, instead of adding even more information to these systems. Sure, we could add warnings for potentially dangerous railroad crossings (e.g. those that do not have a signal installation), and other dangerous places, but how to ensure that people do not rely even more on their systems and after a crash argue that their system did not warn them of this particular situation? I know a street segment that is constantly blocked by trucks which blindly followed the GPS to a bridge they can't pass and turning around is almost impossible, although multiple signs warned them. Now and then a truck takes down the roof of the bridge, although a HUGE sign says it will be too low. Before the prevalence of the GPS, this almost never happened AFAIK, and the drivers always blame the GPS. What about people driving off cliffs, into lakes, or as stated in the article, along blocked streets. If a guy puts up a sign that this street is closed, it is closed and you need to follow, no matter what your GPS tells you. The sign or any legal representative is the normative authority and you must obey - the GPS is merely assisting you. Drivers need to pay attention - and they might have to learn to do it despite having an assisting device giving them directions.
- irishsultan 10y ago
  The flip side of that is that if you ask your GPS to provide you a route and it sends you somewhere that you can't pass then chances are that a shorter route was available if the GPS had known that you couldn't go there, so that information is useful to have in the system (for rail crossings you might have a point, but the max height on a particular segment of a route is useful even assuming people do pay attention once they arrive at the problematic part of the route).
  - rplst8 10y ago
    This is the crossing in question. https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B011'49.6%22N+119%C2%B008'32.2%22W/@34.1971529,-119.1427312,105m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d34.19712!4d-119.14227?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B011'49.6%22N+119%C2... I don't think it was a situation where the driver couldn't get past the crossing. I think they are saying he parked his truck across the rails when it broke down. Had the GPS warned him, "hey this is a railroad crossing" he might not have chosen that spot. IMHO, that's a stretch. If you are too out of your wits to notice a railroad crossing - you shouldn't be driving at all.
mjevans 10y ago
Instead of warnings, can I get the apps to please know where the crossings are and just avoid them if it doesn't cost too much time penalty? (E.G. if there is a bridge near by that was built to avoid that issue, send me to it)
lucaspiller 10y ago
The article says the truck got stuck on the railway - the same could have happened if the driver knew the route too, so I don't really understand why mapping apps are too blame. Here in the U.K. most (all?) at-grade crossings have lights, barriers, but most importantly an emergency telephone so you can contact the signal operator in situations such as this.
- ourmandave 10y ago
  The mapping app can have an option to call the nearest signal operator. (And hopefully you won't have to wait for an ad to download first like I do to check voicemail.)
- pmyteh 10y ago
  Most. Still a reasonable number of open crossings either in rural areas or for private use (e.g. between two fields of a particular farm). Lots of accidents at the open ones, too - Google the Rail Accident Investigation Branch if you want to read the post-accident investigation reports...
white_rabbit 10y ago
[First time commenter] I cannot thoroughly express the rage this kind of writing provokes into me. «He came upon the rail crossing before sunrise, having not slept substantively in more than 24 hours [during which he drove 350 miles], the safety board’s report said.» The guy did something very wrong: what the hell do mapping apps have to do with this crash?
Ensorceled 10y ago
More importantly, our self driving cars need this data. I think the convergence of drivers getting worse and self driving systems getting better is going to make this happen very soon.
mcphage 10y ago
I just wish that mapping apps had information about traffic lights—"turn left in 2.3 miles" is much less useful than "turn left at the third light".
thrillgore 10y ago
Whatever happened to simply teaching people what a level crossing looks like and not to stop on it? Edit: Oh right I forgot self driving cars
jmcdiesel 10y ago
I think there are 2 sides to this... 1) Its ridiculous... the gps is a guide, not a dictator, and you're still responsible for where you put your vehicle. If the guy was reading a map, he'd have had the same problem. However, 2) With autonomous vehicles coming, potential places for a vehicle to get stuck should be on the maps...
gumby 10y ago
Rail crossings often have gates across the paved road but never across the rail road. Why not put a wooden breakaway gate across the rail road as a visual barrier to warn drivers not to try to drive on the rails? If it failed in the down position the train could still safely drive through it at any speed. Interestingly I would have considered the "driver attempt to take car on rails" an uncommon occurrence but just yesterday someone posted a video on the Palo Alto FB page of a Prius turning onto the tracks, then (luckily) backing out and proceeding, to take the actual right turn they thought they were making. Yikes!

24 points by dankohn1 10y ago

Aloha 10y ago

I fear for the generation of drivers who never learned how to navigate without some App or GPS. By using voice announced turn-by-turn directions, you loose a certain amount of situational awareness, this situational awareness is critical to preventing all sorts of troubles while on the road.

tombrossman 10y ago
I have found that when I use a GPS navigation device, it is only a secondary reference that I rarely look directly at. I also disable all audio output. I find them very useful for navigating through an unfamiliar area, but I mostly see the screen in my peripheral vision because I'm paying more attention to the road and signs, etc. I can see when a turn is coming up because the brightly colored line indicating my path on the screen bends, and I complete the turn having never looked directly at the device. I do look at it occasionally when going straight to have a sense of the next road name, distance until next turn, etc. Try this if you haven't already, because I found looking at the device too often was disorienting (especially in traffic circles or complex intersections) because the display lags slightly behind your actual position. You are absolutely right about situational awareness though. That's always top priority and any device that interferes with it should be disabled or repositioned in your field of vision.
rplst8 10y ago
Agree. Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn, and they will take extraordinary measures not to do so. If one misses a turn, too bad. Re-route. The number one concern of a driver on the road should not be getting to their destination - it should be operating the vehicle in a safe manner.
- pcora 10y ago
  It seems that more and more, people just ignore everything in transit to make that turn. Even if it means crossing a 4 lane road to turn left or right in less than 30m..
- drunken-serval 10y ago
  > Too many people are concerned with not missing their turn This is not a new problem.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Which is odd, because one of my primary uses of GPS is simply so that when I do miss my turn, it doesn't matter ("Rerouting..."). It's when I'm relying on memory or a paper map that missing a turn becomes an issue. I'll cross four lanes of traffic to make that turn because I don't have a readily-accessible Plan B.
Finnucane 10y ago
Yeah, I guess I am old, too. If I have to drive somewhere unfamiliar, I look it up and figure out how I'm going to get there before I leave the house. And this doesn't really happen that often; 98 percent of the places I drive to, I know how to get there.
- Aloha 10y ago
  I have many friends who cant even find their own house without GPS. It's somewhat disturbing

bipson 10y ago

I think we need to ensure people pay attention, instead of adding even more information to these systems. Sure, we could add warnings for potentially dangerous railroad crossings (e.g. those that do not have a signal installation), and other dangerous places, but how to ensure that people do not rely even more on their systems and after a crash argue that their system did not warn them of this particular situation? I know a street segment that is constantly blocked by trucks which blindly followed the GPS to a bridge they can't pass and turning around is almost impossible, although multiple signs warned them. Now and then a truck takes down the roof of the bridge, although a HUGE sign says it will be too low. Before the prevalence of the GPS, this almost never happened AFAIK, and the drivers always blame the GPS. What about people driving off cliffs, into lakes, or as stated in the article, along blocked streets. If a guy puts up a sign that this street is closed, it is closed and you need to follow, no matter what your GPS tells you. The sign or any legal representative is the normative authority and you must obey - the GPS is merely assisting you. Drivers need to pay attention - and they might have to learn to do it despite having an assisting device giving them directions.

irishsultan 10y ago
The flip side of that is that if you ask your GPS to provide you a route and it sends you somewhere that you can't pass then chances are that a shorter route was available if the GPS had known that you couldn't go there, so that information is useful to have in the system (for rail crossings you might have a point, but the max height on a particular segment of a route is useful even assuming people do pay attention once they arrive at the problematic part of the route).
- rplst8 10y ago
  This is the crossing in question. https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B011'49.6%22N+119%C2%B008'32.2%22W/@34.1971529,-119.1427312,105m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d34.19712!4d-119.14227?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B011'49.6%22N+119%C2... I don't think it was a situation where the driver couldn't get past the crossing. I think they are saying he parked his truck across the rails when it broke down. Had the GPS warned him, "hey this is a railroad crossing" he might not have chosen that spot. IMHO, that's a stretch. If you are too out of your wits to notice a railroad crossing - you shouldn't be driving at all.

mjevans 10y ago

Instead of warnings, can I get the apps to please know where the crossings are and just avoid them if it doesn't cost too much time penalty? (E.G. if there is a bridge near by that was built to avoid that issue, send me to it)

lucaspiller 10y ago

The article says the truck got stuck on the railway - the same could have happened if the driver knew the route too, so I don't really understand why mapping apps are too blame. Here in the U.K. most (all?) at-grade crossings have lights, barriers, but most importantly an emergency telephone so you can contact the signal operator in situations such as this.

ourmandave 10y ago
The mapping app can have an option to call the nearest signal operator. (And hopefully you won't have to wait for an ad to download first like I do to check voicemail.)
pmyteh 10y ago
Most. Still a reasonable number of open crossings either in rural areas or for private use (e.g. between two fields of a particular farm). Lots of accidents at the open ones, too - Google the Rail Accident Investigation Branch if you want to read the post-accident investigation reports...

white_rabbit 10y ago

[First time commenter] I cannot thoroughly express the rage this kind of writing provokes into me. «He came upon the rail crossing before sunrise, having not slept substantively in more than 24 hours [during which he drove 350 miles], the safety board’s report said.» The guy did something very wrong: what the hell do mapping apps have to do with this crash?

Ensorceled 10y ago

More importantly, our self driving cars need this data. I think the convergence of drivers getting worse and self driving systems getting better is going to make this happen very soon.

mcphage 10y ago

I just wish that mapping apps had information about traffic lights—"turn left in 2.3 miles" is much less useful than "turn left at the third light".

thrillgore 10y ago

Whatever happened to simply teaching people what a level crossing looks like and not to stop on it? Edit: Oh right I forgot self driving cars

jmcdiesel 10y ago

I think there are 2 sides to this... 1) Its ridiculous... the gps is a guide, not a dictator, and you're still responsible for where you put your vehicle. If the guy was reading a map, he'd have had the same problem. However, 2) With autonomous vehicles coming, potential places for a vehicle to get stuck should be on the maps...

gumby 10y ago

Rail crossings often have gates across the paved road but never across the rail road. Why not put a wooden breakaway gate across the rail road as a visual barrier to warn drivers not to try to drive on the rails? If it failed in the down position the train could still safely drive through it at any speed. Interestingly I would have considered the "driver attempt to take car on rails" an uncommon occurrence but just yesterday someone posted a video on the Palo Alto FB page of a Prius turning onto the tracks, then (luckily) backing out and proceeding, to take the actual right turn they thought they were making. Yikes!