4 ms·

Alibaba Lawsuit Throws the Spotlight on Fake Reviews

52 points by allenleein 10y ago

Laforet 10y ago
Going off a tangent on this, (paid) fake reviews on the Chinese AppStore is so bad that the official ranking is saturated with random cash grab apps and games, and even publishers with a legitmate following has to pay for brushing if they want any exposure at all. Not a very healthy state of things to say at least.
- Flimm 10y ago
  Apple's one?
  - pawadu 10y ago
    Yes: http://www.cultofmac.com/311171/crazy-iphone-rig-shows-chinese-workers-manipulate-app-store-rankings/ http://www.cultofmac.com/311171/crazy-iphone-rig-shows-chine... The problem with China is that if pressure is big enough someone will create an alternative app store for jailbroken devices and then iphone in China will go downhill the same path Chinese Android did...
tyingq 10y ago
This is somewhat funny to me, because while the article is about Taobao, Alibaba's other sites are rampant with not just fraudulent reviews, but fraudulent sellers in general. I buy quite a bit of stuff from their AliExpress.com site. These are inexpensive things, so I know what I'm getting into, however... At least one of out every 10 orders ends up having a serious problem. Items that never ship, items that don't work (and clearly weren't designed to work, ever), and so on. Their process to deal with these sort of things is heavily weighted in favor of the sellers. For example, the sellers get cheap shipping due to the UPU[1]. So, they will demand you return an item to get a refund. Well, as a buyer, I have no such access to cheap shipping...so the return shipping costs more than I paid for the item itself. I also see little to no effort on Alibaba's part to curb things like - Deliberately inaccurate item titles and descriptions - "Stuffing"...one vendor creates hundreds of nearly identical listings to game the search functions. - Shipping delays...not in-transit, but sellers sitting on orders for weeks before shipping out - Fake, defective, or otherwise substandard merchandise Basically, it's silly to me that they are chasing other companies when they could just start by cleaning up their own house. [1]http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese-shipping/ http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese...
- lorenzhs 10y ago
  Hm, I've ordered loads of inexpensive stuff on AliExpress as well, probably around 30 orders. The only problem I've ever had was that I received the wrong item once (DHT11 instead of DHT22), and the seller promptly refunded it. I mostly buy electronics components. It does require a bit of careful reading to know what exactly you're buying, though.
  - tyingq 10y ago
    It does depend on the item. More consumer oriented things tend to have more fraud, because they know there's a more gullible, and larger audience. Things like guitar effect pedals. I ordered one where the plastic molded casing design was such that it would never click the switch underneath, and never could have :) Most of the orders I do are basically trying to find new sources for things we sell, so I have a larger sample size...more than a thousand orders over the years.
    - lorenzhs 10y ago
      Ah yes, that does make sense. I guess it wouldn't be very lucrative to sell non-working electronics components. But consumer things that are just way worse quality than expected (or just not caring about manufacturing defects) could probably turn a nice profit :(
      - tyingq 10y ago
        There is bait-and-switch in the electronics arena. Ordered an FTDI usb-to-serial adapter, got a counterfeit Prolific adapter. Wrong chipset, and not even a genuine wrong chipset.
    - coldpie 10y ago
      > Things like guitar effect pedals. I ordered one where the plastic molded casing design was such that it would never click the switch underneath, and never could have :) I hate this so much from a moral perspective. It's someone's job to move resources and labor straight from the factory into a landfill. Great.
coldcode 10y ago
Brushing is an interesting hack, tt seems that no matter what you do online, someone will figure out how to game it, and profit by not actually doing anything.
brilliantcode 10y ago
anyone actually buy anything from alibaba as north american? I'm curious about the experience. I'm half heartedly buying shitty items on Amazon I don't even need. So far, items shipped and made in China have not failed in furthering their reputations of poor quality goods. It made me think twice about ordering from Amazon on a whim. There's a good chance it won't come in time if it's shipped from China.
- drcode 10y ago
  I've bought a couple of electronic items on alibaba and had a good experience- Clearly, you have to pray that the product works correctly, since returns/refunds are pretty impractical.

52 points by allenleein 10y ago

Going off a tangent on this, (paid) fake reviews on the Chinese AppStore is so bad that the official ranking is saturated with random cash grab apps and games, and even publishers with a legitmate following has to pay for brushing if they want any exposure at all. Not a very healthy state of things to say at least.

Flimm 10y ago
Apple's one?
- pawadu 10y ago
  Yes: http://www.cultofmac.com/311171/crazy-iphone-rig-shows-chinese-workers-manipulate-app-store-rankings/ http://www.cultofmac.com/311171/crazy-iphone-rig-shows-chine... The problem with China is that if pressure is big enough someone will create an alternative app store for jailbroken devices and then iphone in China will go downhill the same path Chinese Android did...

tyingq 10y ago

This is somewhat funny to me, because while the article is about Taobao, Alibaba's other sites are rampant with not just fraudulent reviews, but fraudulent sellers in general. I buy quite a bit of stuff from their AliExpress.com site. These are inexpensive things, so I know what I'm getting into, however... At least one of out every 10 orders ends up having a serious problem. Items that never ship, items that don't work (and clearly weren't designed to work, ever), and so on. Their process to deal with these sort of things is heavily weighted in favor of the sellers. For example, the sellers get cheap shipping due to the UPU[1]. So, they will demand you return an item to get a refund. Well, as a buyer, I have no such access to cheap shipping...so the return shipping costs more than I paid for the item itself. I also see little to no effort on Alibaba's part to curb things like - Deliberately inaccurate item titles and descriptions - "Stuffing"...one vendor creates hundreds of nearly identical listings to game the search functions. - Shipping delays...not in-transit, but sellers sitting on orders for weeks before shipping out - Fake, defective, or otherwise substandard merchandise Basically, it's silly to me that they are chasing other companies when they could just start by cleaning up their own house. [1]http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese-shipping/ http://fortune.com/2015/03/11/united-nations-subsidy-chinese...

lorenzhs 10y ago
Hm, I've ordered loads of inexpensive stuff on AliExpress as well, probably around 30 orders. The only problem I've ever had was that I received the wrong item once (DHT11 instead of DHT22), and the seller promptly refunded it. I mostly buy electronics components. It does require a bit of careful reading to know what exactly you're buying, though.
- tyingq 10y ago
  It does depend on the item. More consumer oriented things tend to have more fraud, because they know there's a more gullible, and larger audience. Things like guitar effect pedals. I ordered one where the plastic molded casing design was such that it would never click the switch underneath, and never could have :) Most of the orders I do are basically trying to find new sources for things we sell, so I have a larger sample size...more than a thousand orders over the years.
  - lorenzhs 10y ago
    Ah yes, that does make sense. I guess it wouldn't be very lucrative to sell non-working electronics components. But consumer things that are just way worse quality than expected (or just not caring about manufacturing defects) could probably turn a nice profit :(
    - tyingq 10y ago
      There is bait-and-switch in the electronics arena. Ordered an FTDI usb-to-serial adapter, got a counterfeit Prolific adapter. Wrong chipset, and not even a genuine wrong chipset.
  - coldpie 10y ago
    > Things like guitar effect pedals. I ordered one where the plastic molded casing design was such that it would never click the switch underneath, and never could have :) I hate this so much from a moral perspective. It's someone's job to move resources and labor straight from the factory into a landfill. Great.

coldcode 10y ago

Brushing is an interesting hack, tt seems that no matter what you do online, someone will figure out how to game it, and profit by not actually doing anything.

brilliantcode 10y ago

anyone actually buy anything from alibaba as north american? I'm curious about the experience. I'm half heartedly buying shitty items on Amazon I don't even need. So far, items shipped and made in China have not failed in furthering their reputations of poor quality goods. It made me think twice about ordering from Amazon on a whim. There's a good chance it won't come in time if it's shipped from China.

drcode 10y ago
I've bought a couple of electronic items on alibaba and had a good experience- Clearly, you have to pray that the product works correctly, since returns/refunds are pretty impractical.