4 ms·

Has there been a startup in recent history that was losing this amount of money per year (planned or not) that ended up going green and successful?

mikeyouse 10y ago
Side note, profitability is generally described as "into the black" not the green. Amazon is probably the best example, their GAAP losses totalled several billion dollars for a decade or so before they flipped the switch.
- user837387 10y ago
  That completely got me. I thought he was talking about green technology which did not make much sense to me. Didn't realize he was talking about profitability.
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    Yeah it's usually clear what they mean with "into the green" but a thread about electric vehicles definitely makes that confusing.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
moxious 10y ago
That's a good question. As far as I know these losses are pretty epic, so it's somewhat uncharted territory. They're also not directly comparable to previous unicorns because of their cost structure. They also can't exactly amp up the website ads to cash in on advertising, like previous big losers who turned things around.
- tehlike 10y ago
  autonomous driving could potentially cut one of the main expenses (like the driver's fee), which could cut down prices even more, and probably get them enough of a margin to make them profitable. that's probably why it makes sense to dominate the market while they still can.
  - moxious 10y ago
    Would it be fair to call it a Hail Mary if a technology that isn't ready for the mass market is a potential savior for a company losing $2 billion per year?
    - tehlike 10y ago
      Depends on how fast uber and investors see self driving tech will be ready, no?
      - moxious 10y ago
        Does anyone see it within 2 years? Even if the tech were ready in 100% of situations (it isn't), just working out the legal / regulatory stuff could take that long.
    - Trundle 10y ago
      To be a Hail Mary it'd need to be a last minute risky play wouldn't it? I was under the impression that Uber has been playing the "lose money on human drivers until we have robot drivers and market share" game since, if not day one, a long time ago.
Apocryphon 10y ago
Hasn't Amazon been losing money for a long time?
- swingbridge 10y ago
  No, they are profitable. In fact AWS is wildly profitable.
  - repsilat 10y ago
    AWS is wildly profitable, but Amazon as a whole isn't consistently making profits. They've been in the black lately, but that's largely just to keep up appearances. Who knows of they'll choose to carry on that way. They certainly haven't "turned on the tap" yet, though (as always) they could choose to whenever they want. TBH I think profit is a terrible metric for them. Profit measures cash, and why does Amazon want cash? To buy back shares? To pay dividends? No. We should measure Amazon by annual growth of book value.

mikeyouse 10y ago

Side note, profitability is generally described as "into the black" not the green. Amazon is probably the best example, their GAAP losses totalled several billion dollars for a decade or so before they flipped the switch.

user837387 10y ago
That completely got me. I thought he was talking about green technology which did not make much sense to me. Didn't realize he was talking about profitability.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  Yeah it's usually clear what they mean with "into the green" but a thread about electric vehicles definitely makes that confusing.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

moxious 10y ago

That's a good question. As far as I know these losses are pretty epic, so it's somewhat uncharted territory. They're also not directly comparable to previous unicorns because of their cost structure. They also can't exactly amp up the website ads to cash in on advertising, like previous big losers who turned things around.

tehlike 10y ago
autonomous driving could potentially cut one of the main expenses (like the driver's fee), which could cut down prices even more, and probably get them enough of a margin to make them profitable. that's probably why it makes sense to dominate the market while they still can.
- moxious 10y ago
  Would it be fair to call it a Hail Mary if a technology that isn't ready for the mass market is a potential savior for a company losing $2 billion per year?
  - tehlike 10y ago
    Depends on how fast uber and investors see self driving tech will be ready, no?
    - moxious 10y ago
      Does anyone see it within 2 years? Even if the tech were ready in 100% of situations (it isn't), just working out the legal / regulatory stuff could take that long.
  - Trundle 10y ago
    To be a Hail Mary it'd need to be a last minute risky play wouldn't it? I was under the impression that Uber has been playing the "lose money on human drivers until we have robot drivers and market share" game since, if not day one, a long time ago.

Apocryphon 10y ago

Hasn't Amazon been losing money for a long time?

swingbridge 10y ago
No, they are profitable. In fact AWS is wildly profitable.
- repsilat 10y ago
  AWS is wildly profitable, but Amazon as a whole isn't consistently making profits. They've been in the black lately, but that's largely just to keep up appearances. Who knows of they'll choose to carry on that way. They certainly haven't "turned on the tap" yet, though (as always) they could choose to whenever they want. TBH I think profit is a terrible metric for them. Profit measures cash, and why does Amazon want cash? To buy back shares? To pay dividends? No. We should measure Amazon by annual growth of book value.