4 ms·

No, I mean real AWD. The systems used in smaller crossovers are such afterthoughts that they are only able to handle a tiny fraction of the drivetrain's torque

by cc439 10y ago

No, I mean real AWD. The systems used in smaller crossovers are such afterthoughts that they are only able to handle a tiny fraction of the drivetrain's torque continuously. They may be able to handle up to 50% for a period of time but the tiny little clutches would fry themselves if they weren't protected, thus neutered, by software. They exist to fill out the highly marketable checkbox of "AWD" and to provide some assistance once the vehicle is in motion but they cannot be depended on to deliver the performance of a more traditional AWD system. See the Honda CR-V for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiv-bWbLIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiv-bWbLIo The same "trick" has been applied to the Focus RS. It's "AWD" but the system is so weak that it can never live up to the expectations of those who think the AWD system will perform like that of a Subaru WRX or a Mitsubishi Evo. Source: http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58372 http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58372

kbenson 10y ago
I was referring more to the "soft-road" segment, as you termed it. Ford Explorer, etc. I had a 2004 Explorer Sportrac (which is actually on the ranger chassis instead of the F150 chassis like regular Explorers IIRC), and it definitely had real, wheel locking 4WD in low and high gear, and as such it was dangerous (illegal?) to drive on pavement with it.
- cc439 10y ago
  Your generation of Explorer was from the era where it was still a true SUV. Ford introduced the Freestyle in 2005 which was among the first attempts to reach the modern "crossover" market. It was based off a modified Volvo sedan platform with unibody construction and a FWD focused layout. Unfortunately, it was a product ahead of its time as consumers had yet to warm up to the "tall wagon" approach to crossovers. My point in mentioning the Freestyle is that when it came time to release the 2nd generation, Ford elected to merge the fundamentally sound "crossover/soft-road" concept with the power of the Explorer name. The 5th generation Explorer is a 2nd generation Freestyle/Taurus X in all but the name. The auto industry press was extremely skeptical of such an extreme change in the design philosophy of a truly iconic vehicle. However, despite concerns over the large reduction in "truck" capabilities (massive reduction in approach, departure, and breakover angles as well as towing capacity), the market had stopped caring about such features. Sales are roughly double or even triple those of the 4th gen Explorer in its last years and are an order of magnitude greater than the worst years of the Freestyle/Taurus X. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer#Fifth_generation_.282011_.E2.80.93_present.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer#Fifth_generation...
  - kbenson 10y ago
    Ah, that's a shame. That said, I have been noting how good the new Explorers look. To my eyes they look somewhat comparable to the Range Rover Sport. I imagine the new form has quite a bit to do with the sales. From your link: > The development of the fifth generation Explorer was led by chief engineer Jim Holland, who was also a chief engineer for Land Rover; heading development of the Land Rover Range Rover (L322) 2005 face-lift. Ah. That explains it. From the "capability" section under the link you provided, it looks like the AWD system has some interesting 4WD simulation modes, so it's not a complete departure, but I have no idea how well those perform in practice.
    - cc439 10y ago
      >(T)he AWD system has some interesting 4WD simulation modes, so it's not a complete departure, but I have no idea how well those perform in practice. The Explorer is still solid enough to get you through most winter conditions but it's no longer an offroader if that's what you're looking for. Just look at the approach/breakover/departure angles and you'll see that the most off-roading it's designed for is parking on the grass next to the lacrosse field. I'm not saying that to disparage the concept of crossovers and soft-roaders, I think they're brilliantly designed to match the way they'll actually be used which makes them far more efficient. However, it you're looking for an actual truck, they are no longer for you.
      - kbenson 10y ago
        Ah, well since the only thing I ever used the 4WD for was snow/ice on the way to Tahoe and to pull a boat up a slippery launch, it's probably totally sufficient for what I was using the 4WD in my Explorer for. I agree it's probably a better match for the actual expected use for most other people as well. I'm not sure the explorer was ever the platform of choice for people looking to make a rock crawler...

by cc439 10y ago

kbenson 10y ago

I was referring more to the "soft-road" segment, as you termed it. Ford Explorer, etc. I had a 2004 Explorer Sportrac (which is actually on the ranger chassis instead of the F150 chassis like regular Explorers IIRC), and it definitely had real, wheel locking 4WD in low and high gear, and as such it was dangerous (illegal?) to drive on pavement with it.

cc439 10y ago
Your generation of Explorer was from the era where it was still a true SUV. Ford introduced the Freestyle in 2005 which was among the first attempts to reach the modern "crossover" market. It was based off a modified Volvo sedan platform with unibody construction and a FWD focused layout. Unfortunately, it was a product ahead of its time as consumers had yet to warm up to the "tall wagon" approach to crossovers. My point in mentioning the Freestyle is that when it came time to release the 2nd generation, Ford elected to merge the fundamentally sound "crossover/soft-road" concept with the power of the Explorer name. The 5th generation Explorer is a 2nd generation Freestyle/Taurus X in all but the name. The auto industry press was extremely skeptical of such an extreme change in the design philosophy of a truly iconic vehicle. However, despite concerns over the large reduction in "truck" capabilities (massive reduction in approach, departure, and breakover angles as well as towing capacity), the market had stopped caring about such features. Sales are roughly double or even triple those of the 4th gen Explorer in its last years and are an order of magnitude greater than the worst years of the Freestyle/Taurus X. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer#Fifth_generation_.282011_.E2.80.93_present.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer#Fifth_generation...
- kbenson 10y ago
  Ah, that's a shame. That said, I have been noting how good the new Explorers look. To my eyes they look somewhat comparable to the Range Rover Sport. I imagine the new form has quite a bit to do with the sales. From your link: > The development of the fifth generation Explorer was led by chief engineer Jim Holland, who was also a chief engineer for Land Rover; heading development of the Land Rover Range Rover (L322) 2005 face-lift. Ah. That explains it. From the "capability" section under the link you provided, it looks like the AWD system has some interesting 4WD simulation modes, so it's not a complete departure, but I have no idea how well those perform in practice.
  - cc439 10y ago
    >(T)he AWD system has some interesting 4WD simulation modes, so it's not a complete departure, but I have no idea how well those perform in practice. The Explorer is still solid enough to get you through most winter conditions but it's no longer an offroader if that's what you're looking for. Just look at the approach/breakover/departure angles and you'll see that the most off-roading it's designed for is parking on the grass next to the lacrosse field. I'm not saying that to disparage the concept of crossovers and soft-roaders, I think they're brilliantly designed to match the way they'll actually be used which makes them far more efficient. However, it you're looking for an actual truck, they are no longer for you.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      Ah, well since the only thing I ever used the 4WD for was snow/ice on the way to Tahoe and to pull a boat up a slippery launch, it's probably totally sufficient for what I was using the 4WD in my Explorer for. I agree it's probably a better match for the actual expected use for most other people as well. I'm not sure the explorer was ever the platform of choice for people looking to make a rock crawler...