3 ms·

These are not just instances of "strong language," these are personal attacks. Linus never differentiates between the problem and the person. He just yells and

These are not just instances of "strong language," these are personal attacks. Linus never differentiates between the problem and the person. He just yells and insults. There's a difference between not trying to not offend, and going out of your way to offend. It's entirely possible, and indeed normal and accepted, to communicate in a straightforward and clear way without insulting people. Linus could do that. He chooses not to.

shakna 10y ago
Where is the personal attack? [0] I very much doubt Linus goes out of his way to offend, rather that he's a Finn, and their culture tends to be blunt. I'm Australian. I'm blunt, and to the point. A colleague left a backdoor in software that got deployed. The conversation started with, "What the fuck where you thinking?" Nobody got offended, it was a valid question with valid tone. You can't exactly compare, "You didn't test this." with some of the rants broadcast on shows like, "Kitchen Nightmares". [0] http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1612.2/00545.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1612.2/00545.html
- ivraatiems 10y ago
  "This is shit, get your act together" is more than just blunt, it's rude and insulting. Plus this is just one relatively small incident out of many many over the years. Professional communication in a public setting means not being rude and offensive. If my best friend shows me something and I say "what the fuck were you thinking?", that's one thing. That's not what's happening here. What would be lost by Linus just saying "this clearly doesn't work. Don't submit things without compile-testing in the future."?
  - funnyfacts365 10y ago
    Where are the personalidade attacks? You thrown the accusation around, the ball is on your court to prove it. Stop beating around the bush and answer the question.
    - ivraatiems 10y ago
      I was very clear in my reply to parent about what in this discussion constitutes a personal attack. Others apparently have a different definition of the term.
  - shakna 10y ago
    ... Rude and insulting? Crap is crap. Don't pretend to polish a turd. I seriously do not understand why you think it's insulting. Because a swear word was used for emphasis? And they weren't a friend. A colleague. In a professional review of their conduct. What would be lost is this: standards. Linus shouldn't have had to deal with the issue, and that was immediately acknowledged by the correspondents, who truly did not seem offended, "my bad".
    - ivraatiems 10y ago
      How would standards be lost? The exact same change in behavior is being requested, just more politely. I think it's insulting because it's an implied value judgment on a person as a person, not just a judgment on the work. I don't understand why you don't think it's insulting. If I'm trying to do my job, and you come in and shit all over me in public because I made a mistake, which one of us is the problem? Would you really want to work for someone who thinks it's okay to do that as a management technique?
      - shakna 10y ago
        I'll just focus on one thing here: The only implication of judgement upon the person is one you have applied yourself. It isn't even one the recipients have seen. The judgement is entirely on the work: seen by how the fixed work is gratefully added to the whole, in a manner befitting the project. If a Finn wished to insult you and not just your work, there would be no implication. It would be explicit.
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
  >> "What the fuck where you thinking?" In the context of any job I've ever worked this is unacceptable language and if a senior colleague, in particular, talked to me like that he'd be taking his arse home in a paper bag.
  - shakna 10y ago
    You might find this intetesting: http://www.sparke.com.au/insights/is-swearing-in-the-workplace-acceptable/ http://www.sparke.com.au/insights/is-swearing-in-the-workpla...
    - YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
      The answer is "no" (to both the article title and your comment).

shakna 10y ago

Where is the personal attack? [0] I very much doubt Linus goes out of his way to offend, rather that he's a Finn, and their culture tends to be blunt. I'm Australian. I'm blunt, and to the point. A colleague left a backdoor in software that got deployed. The conversation started with, "What the fuck where you thinking?" Nobody got offended, it was a valid question with valid tone. You can't exactly compare, "You didn't test this." with some of the rants broadcast on shows like, "Kitchen Nightmares". [0] http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1612.2/00545.html http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1612.2/00545.html

ivraatiems 10y ago
"This is shit, get your act together" is more than just blunt, it's rude and insulting. Plus this is just one relatively small incident out of many many over the years. Professional communication in a public setting means not being rude and offensive. If my best friend shows me something and I say "what the fuck were you thinking?", that's one thing. That's not what's happening here. What would be lost by Linus just saying "this clearly doesn't work. Don't submit things without compile-testing in the future."?
- funnyfacts365 10y ago
  Where are the personalidade attacks? You thrown the accusation around, the ball is on your court to prove it. Stop beating around the bush and answer the question.
  - ivraatiems 10y ago
    I was very clear in my reply to parent about what in this discussion constitutes a personal attack. Others apparently have a different definition of the term.
- shakna 10y ago
  ... Rude and insulting? Crap is crap. Don't pretend to polish a turd. I seriously do not understand why you think it's insulting. Because a swear word was used for emphasis? And they weren't a friend. A colleague. In a professional review of their conduct. What would be lost is this: standards. Linus shouldn't have had to deal with the issue, and that was immediately acknowledged by the correspondents, who truly did not seem offended, "my bad".
  - ivraatiems 10y ago
    How would standards be lost? The exact same change in behavior is being requested, just more politely. I think it's insulting because it's an implied value judgment on a person as a person, not just a judgment on the work. I don't understand why you don't think it's insulting. If I'm trying to do my job, and you come in and shit all over me in public because I made a mistake, which one of us is the problem? Would you really want to work for someone who thinks it's okay to do that as a management technique?
    - shakna 10y ago
      I'll just focus on one thing here: The only implication of judgement upon the person is one you have applied yourself. It isn't even one the recipients have seen. The judgement is entirely on the work: seen by how the fixed work is gratefully added to the whole, in a manner befitting the project. If a Finn wished to insult you and not just your work, there would be no implication. It would be explicit.
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
>> "What the fuck where you thinking?" In the context of any job I've ever worked this is unacceptable language and if a senior colleague, in particular, talked to me like that he'd be taking his arse home in a paper bag.
- shakna 10y ago
  You might find this intetesting: http://www.sparke.com.au/insights/is-swearing-in-the-workplace-acceptable/ http://www.sparke.com.au/insights/is-swearing-in-the-workpla...
  - YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
    The answer is "no" (to both the article title and your comment).